Fuck! Sorry Pacman - was on the thrash puppy vid and saw Mossad's post and replied before I got here... You therefore have ownership of that joke and / or variations of same.
Guess the fact they have bred in capitivyt suggests they can adapt to it... Might stop them being taken from the wild. Still not sure I agree with it all but thx for the link :-)
Indeed Mako. An absolute disgrace. People should get out and about more and see these magnificent animals in their natural environment.
The video? - drivel I'm afraid. Come on Glumbert!
mako... I totally agree with you. I don't think it's drivel... but rather thought provoking. The whole 'capitivity vs natural freedom' argument.
I hate to be the one to say it... but... I mean I was kinda routing for the Orca... hate to think of animals in capitivity. Thought it was kind of funny.
The only animals guaranteed survival are animals we need as humans (unless for an incurable disease) and they are animals for food and pets. ie they have value to humans the rest don't stand a chance.
Dixie I was in line at the grocery store today, when suddenly without warning the attractive woman in front of me cut the most horrendous fart I've ever experienced. It was so intense I swear I almost vomited. I was surprised the smoke alarms didn't go off. Only later did I realize where I had seen that face before, yes, Dixie's crib photo, That woman was you wasn't it DB8.
ah the good old fart has on many occasion been a source of amusement in my life.
It reminds me of a time when I am sure I heard my sister pass a little plip I was thirteen at the time I jumped up pointed to her and exclaimed you farted she denied it but I was sure I heard something but then she had me doubting myself of course I now know the truth that women do not fart only men.
I think its very wrong to keep animals in captivity in places for human profit and entertainment (zoos, sea world, etc). It's wrong and I wouldn't like it either if I were kept in a cage for people to watch and amuse over.
The only way it's justified is if the animal is in danger of dieing in the wild if they aren't able to survive on their own.
So lame, if you've ever watched Max X, back in the 60's Shamu damn near took the trainers leg off! This looks like an accident. Remember it's a "Killer" whale...
Might be called 'killer' Jimmy but it's an animal with absolutely zero record of EVER having attacked and killed a human being in the wild... Only recorded attacks have been when in captivity - can you blame them?
Orca's (much better and more correct name) have been seen catching Mako sharks (fastest shark in the ocean) and eating Great Whites.
They're pretty much the Don of the ocean.
Anyone killing them for food is an idiot. Not only is it wrong but (certainly the ones of the coast of Cal for sure) their flesh is so laden with mercury and PCPs that they are technically toxic waste.
I love how we humans just fit into our little niche so well without affecting the environment in any way.
Yep sharks frequently figure on their diet. They are the absolute apex predator, the Don, the Capofamiglia, the faakin Daddy!
Off the Farralons some of the researchers were viewing a 3-4 meter great white, they saw an orca nearby and assumed they'd both ignore each other.
This assumption was swiftly changed when the orca dived, came up beneath and killed the great white
They're pretty wide ranging...If memory serves, the Orca pod seen chasing down the mako were spotted off New Zealand - cold water there. South Africa, Nova Scotia, Norway amongst other places all see mako fairly commonly, pretty chilly waters all in all.
They can do tropical water too but it seems only on a seasonal migration basis - it's thought their preferred water temp is something between 17-20 degrees c.
Mako (like great whites), tho not exactly warm blooded, maintain a body temperature slightly warmer than their surroundings when in cold water. It's what helps give them their turn of speed. It would be a waste to have this system in place if they were purely tropical. Not sure of any other fish which do that.
mako not to out do you I would never ever dream of doing so - But the Tuna family also have the the ability to increase their blood temp above the ambient temp in order to chase its PREY in fact most pelagic fish do so.
And they taste yummy even the nip way ie: sushi and sushami.
General consensus seems to be, wrong to keep these magnificen animals in a tank for human amusement. No one knows what they may think or feel about the situation. Probably nothing, in a human context. They don't miss the wild, they've never known it. They don't resent being caged, they don't know anything else. On the other hand, they have interaction with other beings that seem to care about their well-being (their handlers), and they are provided with regular meals, which is a priority to all species. I don't suppose it is all bad for them. But I would think the key here is to keep in mind they are natural predators, they can't change that, even if they wanted to. They are instinctively one minded, which is survival. That's all they can really comprehend. They can be trained, by using their survival instincts as incentives (food), but they can never be "humanized". People go to see them, watch them, think they are experiencing human traits, when they are not. They are simply reacting to signals that mean they will eat, and therefore survive. It's all so rediculous in a way. Making wild animals "jump through hoops", literally, in order to live. They learn to do it. Bears riding bikes? I've seen it. Elephants standing on platforms and letting people ride on them? I've seen it. Killer whales acting friendly and cute? I've seen that too. I'm guilty of perpetuating the nonsense. I'm not proud of it.
I actually think that all creatures have an inner want and desire to be free. Not ever having freedom does not necessarily equate to not ever wanting it. I think deep down the natural instinct is there for those types of animals. Including animals, humans, the like. I think that caging the creatures because they might be injured or any other reason is wrong. It interrupts natures natural course. Even worse to have these majestic creatures acting and jumping like they're in a circus (which I also doth protest). But in the end... it's not the animals in capitivity that cause me the worry... it's the humans that justify them being there.
The Japanese eat dolphin. It's actually hundreds of years old and tradition for them. Although, there is quite a fight right now between them and the rest of the Global communities in regards to this matter.
Also a fight internally within Japan as well Dixie.
I think a few nutritionist scientists there are beginning to push the message about incredibly high levels of mercury in dolphin flesh. The inhumanity of it seems to be an irrelevance to them, but maybe the international condemnation is beginning to cut through... can but hope I guess
I know about the fight the ship named the Steve Irwin as been harassing the commercial whaling fleets in the Antarctic.
Commercial whaling for the nips I mean Japs began after WWII when General Douglas MacArthur I think it was sent out the beaten Jap navel fleet to hunt whales because of the lack of protein available after the war.
This video disturbed me enough that if the DOC ever says"Andrew you have 2 weeks to live" Ill be jumping on a plane grabbing an AK47 and visiting this place(no i wont but is disturbing)
http://www.glumbert.com/media/dolphin
The nutritionists are actually arguing about which types of dolphins have less mercury... blue fin and the like. As if that truly matters.
It seems like pointless killing. They're even finding ways of blocking out people from the places where they do the killing. I actually saw a full documentary on this issue. It's quite ghastly.
Perhaps it's hypocritical of me to say that, considering I adore a good Prime rib... and have seen many a slaughterhouse. However, there's something about the killing of dolphins that puts a pang in me everytime.
Different cultures different views etc... I heard of one counter argument from one Jap politician who apparently said "You kill cows and sheep to eat, we kill whales and dolphins to eat, you don't understand us"
I get his point of view up until the point I pay through the frickin nose for a decent bit of japanese Kobe steak. Seeing what they do to dolphins, christ knows how they kill the cows.
Plus we all watched Flipper and they didn't. We love cutesy smiling, playful intelligent dolphins, they see a snack with fins.
Those of us who don't eat them tend to support the idea that they're way more intelligent than the average animal, they communicate superbly, their sonar beats anything we can develop, their hydrodynamics are brilliant, we all hear the stories of swimmers being helped, sharks fended off etc...
Cows can't compete really, apart from tasting better.
In short I guess I feel eating something that we should be learning so much more from seems wrong. All the more so given how cruelly it's slaughtered
I bet dolphins really wish they could say, 'So long and thanks for all the fish!'
Dixiebell and mako you are both being hypocrites the only way you can win this argument is without emotion (mako I thought you were a practician of Vulcan wisdom).
The only valid argument could you have is that whales and dolphins are not being farmed yet and that only depleting wild stocks are being taken.
Kobe cattle are very much pampered... they receive a special diet, constant attention, even massages and several daily groomings. Hence the high prices. That and the fact that there are not so many cattle, not like England or the US.
The difference is, Nihon (Japs (from Japan, your name); or Nips (from Nippon, their name) is an island nation, with many people and little land... until a few hundred years ago, the eating of such meat was considered abhorrant, and the people who processed such were the lowest class of people, much like the 'untouchables' of India.
As an island nation, the primary source for protein was fish... and whales and dolphins, as well as crustaceans. Beef was not much on the menu.
So fish is cheap and easily available in Japan; beef, not so much. Exported Kobe is therefore sold at the highest price the market will bear, because it's so damn good you white eyes will happily pay for it.
Next time you treat yourself to Kobe, say this as your server places that delicious braised beast in front of you: " Itadaki-masu "
and at the end of your meal, say: " Go-chisosama deshita ".
Please keep in mind that in Japanese, vowels are pronounced thusly...
'A' is always pronounced as the 'a' in 'father'
'I' is always pronounced as 'ee', as in 'see'
"E' is always pronounced as 'eh', as in 'meh'
Do this, and your Nip servers will never spit in your food. Unless you are otherwise rude.
Long one comin%u2019 here %u2013 apols for those who aren%u2019t interested.
Thanks for the info on place names I was aware Nihon / Nipon (Nippon?) was the original term for the country - but thought Nip was still a derogatory term? Where I come from it is seen as rude. If Jap is also viewed poorly then my sincere apologies. It was meant in the same way I would call someone a Yank, Brit or Ozzie %u2013 it relates to their country%u2019s name and no insult is meant.
Backbone %u2013 I may owe you an apology on picking you up earlier. Even your sensei can learn :-)
Now let%u2019s have a little chat about dolphins.
I fully understand that whale and dolphin meat has long been a part of the diet of SOME, but by no means ALL Japanese. Initially it was limited to whaling communities only. Large scale consumption, only really came about (as Backbone says above) AFTER the end of WW2 to help the food shortage, peaking at around 30% of total meat consumption right?
I understand much of this consumption was in schools the aim being to provide a protein, iron and niacin rich meat? Apparently whale meat could eat be eaten safely by kids allergic to other meat, correct?
These facts all help clarify the situation, however I'd really welcome your views on the following:
Firstly a press article called %u2018Policies governing the distribution of by-products from scientific and small-scale coastal whaling in Japan%u2019 was written last year by Aiko Endo, Masahiro Yamao Marine Policy 31
It made a few conclusions;
1. The Japanese public views whale meat as an expensive luxury food, or expensive delicacy; not as daily food item.
2. Demand continues to fall. Consumption of whale per person dropped from about 2,000 grams 40 years ago to about 50 grams in 2005.
3.Processed (mass produced/cheap looking) whale meat does not appeal to the public, and is not profitable for processors for a number of reasons; large stockpiles are expensive to maintain; quality of product is not consistent; and sales to processors only happen twice a year, intensifying the cost outlay.
Do you agree with these points?
There%u2019s also an interesting AP article suggesting that %u2018Japan faces whale meat glut %u2014 consumers turn away even as price falls%u2019. This was published in 2006 and makes for slightly disturbing reading when we take the dangerous toxicity of dolphin meat into account:
START ARTICLE
Japan has enticed children with whale burger school lunches, sung the praises of the red meat in colorful pamphlets, and declared whale hunting %u2018a national heritage%u2019
But Tokyo has a dilemma: by rapidly expanding its whale hunt, Japan now kills more of the giant mammals than its consumers care to eat.
The result is an unprecedented glut of whale meat. Prices %u2014 once about $15 a pound %u2014 are plunging, inventories are bursting, and promoters are scrambling to get Japanese to eat more whale. It's a tough sell.
%u2018To put it simply, whale meat tastes horrible,%u2019 said 30-year-old Kosuke Nakamura, one of the diners at a Hana No Mai restaurant in Tokyo. Young people are put off by the tough, pungent meat, Nakamura said, while older Japanese are reminded of the lean years after the country's defeat in World War II.
And while few Japanese voice environmental concerns over hunting whales, some younger people say it has brought the country unfavorable publicity. %u2019Whaling's so bad for Japan's image. I don't know why we still hunt,%u2019 Nakamura said.
Some 1,035 tons of whale meat hit the market in Japan last year, a 65 percent increase from 1995, the Fisheries Agency says. And sluggish demand means inventories have almost doubled in five years to 2,704 tons in 2004.
In the same period, the average price of whale fell almost 30 percent, to just over $10 a pound in 2004. That's more than the average price for beef %u2014 about $9 a pound %u2014 and far higher than for chicken or pork.
But the glut of whale meat hasn't stopped the harpoon guns. Tokyo says its program is needed to establish reliable information on whale populations and habits %u2014 data Japan says can only be gleaned by killing the animals. The government, which distributes the meat and uses profits to fund research, is working to promote whale meat and secure new distribution channels.
%u2018Is it OK to eat whale meat? Of course it is,%u2019 reads a pamphlet titled %u2018Delicious Whales%u2019 that is distributed by the government-affiliated Japan Whaling Association. %u2018Even if we capture 2,000 whales a year for 100 years, it's OK because whale numbers are growing,%u2019 the pamphlet says. The association acknowledges whale is a hard sell. Some local governments have begun offering whale meat in school lunches.
Wakayama, a prefecture with a whale-hunting tradition 280 miles southwest of Tokyo, has been aggressive in getting youngsters to eat whale, introducing whale meals at 270 public schools in 2005.
Nutritionists have even developed child-friendly whale dishes, including whale meatballs, hamburgers and whale spaghetti Bolognese.
Chimney Co. which runs the Hana No Mai eateries, acknowledges customers are wary of new whale dishes. Still, Hana No Mai will keep selling whale meat. And a trader at one of Tsukiji market's biggest wholesalers, Daito Gyorui Co., was equally optimistic. %u2018The fall in prices is a good thing because it will make whale meat more accessible,%u2019 Yoshiaki Kochi said. %u2018Japanese will never forget the taste of whale. It's part of our culture. It's in our DNA.%u2019
(END ARTICLE)
So in summary, it seems demand for whale IS dropping, yet the Japanese government STILL insists on continued killing and contributing to a whale meat surplus? Seemingly the best way to get rid of this surplus is to enforce whale meat school dinner programs.
This seems completely irresponsible and also smacks of the Japanese government not wishing to loose face.
I mentioned before, and fully agree, that differences in cultures exist. An island nation has every right to harvest the oceans, and Japanese aquaculture is some of the most advanced in the world. Your Okinawa aquarium is somewhere I would love to visit%u2026However in the light of all the research into the toxic content of dolphin meat, do you REALLY think having your children eat this stuff in school dinners is a good idea? Differing cultures shouldn%u2019t be an issue here. Common sense should.
The issue of saving government %u2018face%u2019 aside, WHY is the government promoting consumption to kids of a product that has demonstrably been shown to contain dangerous levels of lethal heavy metals and contaminants?
It seems some of your scientists are trying to make your countrymen aware of what mercury does to the central nervous system, to an unborn child etc.
Check out the origins of the term %u2018mad as a hatter%u2019%u2026
This stuff is toxic as hell. It really defeats me why you would feed this to your young, or to anyone for that matter.
I thank you for your instructive info on Kobe beef by the way. I was aware of all that through successful marketing campaigns telling us of the pampered and luxurious lifestyle these lucky bovines have. It helps us justify the price we pay for it. I will take your language instructions aboard next time I suffer near heart failure on presentation of the bill at my next beef blow out.
Tell me though, when it comes to slaughter time, are these Kobe cattle herded together in panicked family groups using electric prods, harpooned and sliced open alive with flensing tools, then left to bleed out as they thrash around in what must undoubtedly be nothing but cruel and unmitigated agony?
The sheer brutality of the slaughter is surely indefensible? Why are more humane methods not enforced? I appreciate that you still need to herd them; a stressful experience in its own right %u2013 can%u2019t see a way around that.
However once driven into the bay, since dolphins are not as large as the other cetaceans you harvest with explosive and electric shock harpoons, surely a bolt gun system much like that used for cattle could be used to kill the animal outright?
I appreciate even these systems have their problems, but in comparison to slicing a creature to the bone and leaving it to thrash and bleed whilst it%u2019s screams cause greater distress to the other animals in the pod, there is surely no argument for continuing with current methods?
I have heard from some that it is actually considered some form of %u2018honour%u2019 for fishermen to kill them this way? If so then they are not fishermen, they are simply true sadists.
Just out of interest, can you tell me why a samurai committing seppuku would request their kaishakunin to stand by and perform daki-kubi? Was it not to spare himself the agony of disembowelment?
Yet your fishermen use hooks and knives to slice these animals open and leave them alive? This seems to me an incredibly cowardly way to do things. Especially for a nation that prides itself on technical inventiveness, as well as a long standing bushido heritage.
I understand your fisherman sometimes use the term %u2018isana%u2019 to describe whales? The meaning behind it is apparently %u2018brave fish%u2019? If this so, then why would you do them the dishonor of such ignorant treatment at the time of death?
The main reasons for the international outcry are varied but it seems they can be condensed thus;
1.The methods of killing are completely inhumane. ALL animals are worthy of the cleanest, quickest death possible if you are going to eat them
2. The intelligence of dolphins which was succinctly put by Chaz above suggests we should be learning more about them not sticking them in sandwiches. They show friendliness, curiosity and in some cases act in ways we might conceive as altruistic. Far, far more so than any beer, sake and grain fed bovine would.
3. Demand for the product actually appears to be falling, yet your government appears intent on increasing the supply %u2013 begin to question your government more actively and vocally
4. The stuff is toxic and feeding it to your kids is tantamount to abuse and stupidity
I can%u2019t see a way of commercially farming whales for sure, their sheer size, food and space requirements would preclude this economically.
Am pretty sure commercially farmed dolphin would be non-viable too given the length of their gestation period, the time taken for them to become sexually mature and reproduce in sufficient numbers etc.
That said, given their flesh will remain toxic (commercial farming wouldn%u2019t change this as their feed would still need to come from the sea and therefore contaminants would still be a factor), and the demand for the product is falling, why bother?
Since the Japanese government insists that their whale hunting is for scientific purposes I want to propose another scientific reasearch: How long does it take for a Japanese whaling ship to sink when hit midships by a MK46? To be sure the data is reliable repeated testing is advised.
I'll eat chicken, beef, tuna, oysters, etc....but would never be a buyer of Dolphin.
Call it hypocritical. No matter. They think. So, they deserve thinker's priveleges. As do whales, killer and otherwise.
"Dumb" animals are fair game. Thinking animals are not.
I am the son of a hunter/fisherman. I have grown some, but still harbor the notion of dominance over animals.
I think I may have exposed a side vulnerable to attack. Hope not. Still love venison...especially the one that jumped in front of my Lexus and resulted in our landing upside down in a culvert...safely...good car, thankfully).
Point being......are we all to be vegetarians ? If so, how does one explain the raping of life from living organisms like onions, carrots, and so on ? Life that has little defense mechanisms. Open to animal predation. Random rampages. Being eaten, cut, taken away...all without defense.
That's because the animals have a sort of superiority over the vegetables...in the natural order of things. One need not agree with this, and might wish it different....but that is just the way life is.
And the next step is the smarter animals versus the dumber ones...a step only philosophically different than the one before (life being the common denominator).
Oh well....I'm getting tired now. And there are so many really smart guys here. I am sure I'll get an explanation soon...life is so easily defined, eh?
C, be thankful, very thankful, that most here are not as big of an igno-tard as this fool! LOL You don't even need to bring up the spelling issue. This numb nut couldn't possibly have any feet...as in shooting himself in the foot every time he "writes" something! Since this is truly a case of, "being his own worst enemy", no reply needed! LMFAO!
OK, no one has seemed to touch on the Bluefin tuna issue, not as "smart" as the dolphin but exploited on a much bigger scale, damn near to extinction. I'm not talking the small tuna we get in the can, such as the meter long "skipjack" (light tuna) or the "albacore" (white meat tuna), or the tuna steak type we get at the supermarket or restaurants, the "yellowfin" and "bigeye" species. I'm talking about a giant among fishes, the Bluefin tuna, which is used exclusively for sushi and sashimi. This big monster gets to three quarters of a ton and four meters in length, and is one of the few truly warm-blooded fishes (average body temp 81 F). This guy routinely dives over a kilometer down, can swim at 80 kph and migrate across entire oceans. Which is part of the problem, it is hunted to no end all over the world. With prices being paid in the $45 a pound range, (one fish sold at the Tsukiji fish market in Tokyo for $173,600) you can see the problem, greed! Of course the Japanese are the biggest consumers of Bluefin (60,000 tons a year), and are willing to spend hundreds of dollars a slice!
Now with the advent of penning, (catching half grown Bluefin and putting them in giant underwater towable pens) which circumvents catch size and quotas set by ICCAT. Since they aren't "taking" any fish they can get away with it. All they do is fed them, fatten them up and harvest when they reach the right size. Every country on the Mediterranean takes advantage of this loophole and maintains tuna ranches offshore. Since we are talking hundreds of thousand of fish per pen, if you had to design a way to guarantee the decimation of a breeding population this would be it: catch fish before they are old enough to breed and keep them penned up until they are killed. But even with quotas, bans, restrictions, boundaries and any other rules and regs, the illegal fishing will go on, thanks to the Japanese appetite (three quarters of the global catch) and willingness to pay top price, regardless of how or where it was caught. Just what is it with the Japanese anyway?
I think when it comes to environmental issues North America and Europe are a bit ahead of the rest of the world on the learning curve. Though we still have a (very) long way to go too.
But if you look at China there are areas where it is hip to eat endangered species. In places in Africa they eat primates even though it is illegal to hunt them in most countries.
Norway has a whaling fleet too, but they get quite some pressure from the EU (while not part of the EU they are affiliated and part of the common market and being a rather small country economically they get more serious pressure than Japan).
We can only hope that mankind gets smart before we have to learn how true the prophecy of the Cree is.
Hey Miter, I think the tuna are only 'wrangled' when they are of a certain size. In other words they don't catch juveniles, they catch stock which is large enough to have already bred, but not too large that they cannot grow them on profitably.
This should help ensure breeding stocks in the wild are maintained. Or at least gives them a chance
Mind you, the captured ranch fish still need inordinate amounts of feed to grow them and these methods don't stop the longliners decimating the stocks left in the wild.
I've heard the Kiwis and Ozzies are experts at this tuna wrangling lark - they're pretty protective of the environment too (though with a yiin to every yang, Oz happily mines and sells 24% of the world's uranium)
No it hasn't you scumsucking asshole pig-featured stinkin piece of rotten zombie flesh motherfucking turnip brained syphillitic son of a port said camel dealer!!!
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