He's right. The media laid down on Iraq and tried to make him look like he didnt know what he was talking about. His point was validated. Now they're doing it again with Sicko because they get those sweet ad dollars from the medical establishment. The major criticism is wait times but when you arent covered you could be waiting until you're dead. Bravo Mr. Moore.
The media receives "those sweet ad dollars" from pharmaceutical companies not the medical establishments. Pharmaceutical companies are some of the wealthiest worldwide. Medical establishments are too busy trying to overpay their specialists. I work in healthcare and I am ashamed of how our great land, the USA, is currently being operated in many ways We can do so much better. We need a REALLY GOOD leader this time. AL GORE please reconsider running in 2008 and save us from ourselves. We need you!!
Wow...Michael Moore has been shown to routinely make things up on purpose. He is a liar of unequalled proportions and has been proven so, over and over again. Further, when he does have a point it is almost always from a socialist bent. If anyone believes anything this man has to say then God be with us. Once someone lies a couple of times they should cease being trusted. He can be indignant all he wants with sycophantic Blitzer but that does not change the known facts of his deceptions. When I am convalescing in my sunset years, Michael Mooore will be a forgotten pimple on the American landscape who had no more impact than to be an irritant.
Well, you are saying Michael Moore was wrong and people are straightening him up all the time and stuff like this.. Could we enjoy an example of what your talking about? or is just faggy talks.
Moore is a journalist, he is not supposed to be right, although he is, he is supposed to uncover truths, which he is actually good at as you have seen in Fahrenheit, and bowling for columbine. Have you seen them? was he like.. wrong or something? what do you have to say about them?.. then shut the fuck up!
If you are unable to make a fucking straight point with reasoning and examples, then stop bitching around with these hollow talks. When one doesn't know, one shuts the fuck up!
I'd really like to see a 3rd party research this and see whose numbers were right-- Moore's or CNN's. In either case it hardly matters-- either set of statistics really seem to confirm the points Moore tries to make, and quibbling over the numbers is really detracting attention from the real issue at hand Moore is trying to bring to media attention.
I admire Wolf's disposition on the show. Fox News would have been yelling their heads off, but Wolf maintained a very professional attitude throughout the whole thing, even when his snooty colleagues made snarky remarks. I wish Moore would have held his temperament better, but it makes sense that he'd be frustrated after being attacked like that after working so hard on something that he's obviously passionate about.
Moore is so sad. Wimpy little left wing promoter who masquerades as a "filmmaker" ... "Rips apart wolf blitzer" ???? More like throws a tantrum to get attention for his new movie. This guy is such a hypocrite, just wait till some democrat is in office... then see if you hear a peep out of Moore ...even if America is just as "crappy" as ever .... I promise you he won't say anything about it. He just stirs up tension to try and dissuade the people from ever trusting a conservative.
Ok so you don't like Micheal Moore. You mentioned nothing about the health care issue or the issue of how the media is bought off by people who don't want this movie seen or the system leveled back into the population's favor. This video has nothing to do with Liberal or Conservative. His movie is about a broken medical system not trying to inspire mistrust against conservatives. No one needs Michael Moore for that. Conservatives like you are doing a fine job of that on your own.
I live in Toronto Canada and YES the wait times are long when you have to go to the hospital with a problem so some of what CNN is saying is true. The other problem we have in Canada is that if you have a problem and have to go for tests like say a colonoscopy ( sp ? ) YOU have to wait sometimes.. the wait could be up to 6 months.. where as if you were in the United States you could probably get a test right away. If you had a serious problem this wait time in Canada could cause problems ie: death. That being said I would sooner pay higher taxes and have free health care any day over the U.S. system which clearly sucks !I would never want to be an American.
Why do you say Americans systems sucks? I have great healthcare along with 85% of us and have always had it all my life because I would Never work for any company that does not provide it for their workers and if I did work without it I would NOT stop looking for a better job that does provide it,,,,so whos fault is it that they dont have health ins? And why should we scrap the best medical system for 15% of people that are too lazy to find a better job that provides it? If we the USA would have universal healthcare, another reason for more Mexicans to want to come here. Mexicans need to bypass the USA and come straight to Canada.:)
Your argument actually may have been sound, except for three points:
1. It's based on racism;
2. It's based on the premise of "look-out-for-number-one-and-fuck-everyone-else" (hardly what I think the Founding Fathers intended for the Republic);
3. It's based on numbers that are immediately questionable (please provide examples of "85%" or "15%");
4. It's based on the philosophy that unless you have a decent job that provides some basic health insurance (something that I'm sure most folks would be lucky to find, like yourself, and fall into the minority), then you're bascially S.O.L.
5. It's based on the assumption that WE need (or want ) to have ill, sick or injured Americans up here, because the United States government cannot or will not, look after the health of it's own citizens, and instead leaves them to the mercy of the HMO's and pharmaceutical industries;
6. It's based on the American government not being able to afford such a system; $12 billion A MONTH is currently being spent to finance active operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Multiply that figure by 12 months (or even by 4 years that the conflict has now raged).
OH I FORGOT... CNN SUCKS and what Michael Moore says about the war and the mainstream media is sooooo true. CNN / FOX CBS NBC ........... where are the weapons of mass destruction and why is America still in the stupid war!
You seem to be misled by the media in thinking we entered the war over solely weapons of mass destruction and the fact that they were there. In reality, we went to war because Iraq violated its agreements with the UN and US on full compliance in the international investigation for Weapons of mass destruction that DID exist and were last known to reside in Iraq. The data released in compliance with the UN resolution was judged to be incomplete by Tony Blair and he asked the UN to continue its investigation. However, Iraq released no further conclusive data that it did not posess WMDs, and with the UN failing to take action, the US did what it should do when international peace negotiators fail to do anything as far as ensure the security of both parties, they went to war.
As to why America is still at war, isn't it obvious? They destroyed a country and in order to rebuild it have to ensure it's security. When bush senior attacked and destroyed Iraq, it left many in poverty. A large chunk of its economy died when the oil wells were burnt and america did nothing to fix that. America would be just as inhumane as the dictator they took out of power if they left the country in ruin for an even more ruthless dictator to take over.
Face it grueslayer there was absolutely no evidence of WMD's it was false or made up. The satellite photos they had were misinterpreted and the intell they had was bunk. Wow the NSA, FBI, CIA made a mistake again? say it ain't so... hmmm let me think about past successful U.S. invasions.... Vietnam.. no... um Korea..? no... hmmm Yes the U.S. destroyed a country you admitted it.. and over 500,000 innocent iraqi civilians have been systematically killed/murdered ( bombed accidentally by the U.S., shot, been killed by suicide bombers) because of the U.S. invasion. Life was better for them under Saddam. Yes hard to believe. Have you been to Iraq recently ? I have.. I would have to say that an all out civil war is much worse than anything they suffered under Saddam.. hmm that reminds me.. who put Saddam there ? Oh yes the Americans. So sad that you are mislead by your biased media. You probably didn't know this... THE ONLY REASON your country is staying there now is because you are caught in a quagmire my friend.. and you are so screwed now. You can't leave... if you leave all hell will break loose in the Middle East. Iran is waiting in the wings.. watching.. so is Syria. Its going to happen... So funny this war is. Your country focuses on Paris Hilton but not for all the soilders who have had their tours of duty extended over and over... and are dying every day ( more and more ) at the hands of the insurgents and their much more powerful IED's. The problem with America is once you realize you are losing a war your media and your country loses interest. Not many support the troops. Your war is a mess and your country is a mess because of it. Your deficit is ballooning, your economy is suffering and you will end up paying dearly for entering this war. The terrorists are waiting in the wings.
actually... you're both wrong. The WMD was a marketing/perception farce put on to us by the U.S. government. Think about it. "weapon of mass destruction"? What does that really mean? Does that mean a rocket which can travel 600 kilometers and deliver a payload of nerve gas that can kills thousands of people, perhaps hundres of people? Is that REALLY a weapon of mass destruction? Do you know how far 600 KM is? It's less than 400 miles!!!! Meaning, the only real threat to any one that Iraq ever was, was a threat to its neighboring states like... Israel.
Secondly... it's IMPOSSIBLE to prove that something does NOT exist. It's a logical impossibility. So to say that we went to war b/c Iraq could not prove that there were no WMD is preposterous.
The only countries with REAL Weapons of Mass Destruction are the USA and any other countries with ICBMS or other cross-continent nuclear weapons that have the capability of traveling over half the globe and striking a different continent and killing MILLIONS of people at a time.
Now THAT is a weapon of mass destruction.
The REAL reason we went to war in Iraq is because of three things: 1. strategic positioning in the middle east 2. OIL 3. Water (Iraq is a huge source of water in the middle east. It's not just a big desert like the media would have you believe)
conuck.. You obviously need a picture.. I doubt Canada is the first supplier to US in terms of oil, you need to prove this, but even though, Oil supplies do not depend on who are we buying from, it is a market, meaning that if iraq stops suppling, The presumed canada's oil will be more expensive because it is more valuable.. Then it turns out to the same point..
Concerning water you should be stupid to think that US is interested to like.. import water or something, we he is talking about is that water is an important factor on the strategic and political equilibrium in the region, not to bring here to the us..
otherwise, I think too that wmd and all the bullshit about dictatorship was a vicious but successful ad to ruin that beautiful country.. All what we need to do now, is to admit it.
Canada is the U.S.'s biggest oil supplier, regardless of how the oil is distributed in the market place. Wolfie there was kind enough to beat me to posting the link as evidence.
Information courtesy of the U.S. Dept. of Energy website.
I don't trust Michael Moore, I loath the media, but I loved seeing Michael beat the hell outta cnn...he had em squirming..I think that may be his shining moment!
Why isn't this guy running for PRESIDENT??? The guy's a fuckin' PATRIOT.
He makes every right-wing, neo-con, flag-waving moron look like an incompetent turd (kinda like Mr. "I'm-Dumb-As-A-Plank" Throbstick). I said it once, and I'll say it again (pay attention, mickle, you brain-dead fuck): NO ONE....has EVER...either sued or brought ANY kind of litigation against this man. EVER. This includes potential charges of slander, libel or even erroneously reporting anything. What's that tell ya?
And he never said at any point that Amercia is "crappy". Like WTF is in some peoples' heads?? He's basically saying, "Look, I love my country; I'm proud to be an American; and it's because of THIS, that I want to do my bit to try to fix whatever problem may or may not exist in my own society, by at least raising some level of awareness, or provoke healthy debate." And that's it in a nutshell. Meanwhile, so-called "conservative" fuckheads always have the same attitude when it comes to this topic: they wrap themselves in the flag, sing a few verses of the "Star Spangled Banner", flee to their local zealot-inspired churches to scream PRAISE JAYZUSSSSSS!! and take a measurement of their assholes to see if they can bury their heads in there.
And he's 100% right about CNN and rest of the mainstream media: they didn't do their fucking jobs in the run-up to the Iraq invasion. As result, 3600 American kids are dead (I've yet to see ANY of these right-wing retards on these threads give a fiddlers fuck about THAT) and, even more appallingly, something like 40% of Americans TO THIS DAY believe that Iraq had some direct invlovement on the attacks of 9/11.
Jesus H. Christ. How pathetic is THAT? (Go spend 5 minutes talking to my in-laws in the Southern-Midwest U.S.; they're your quintessential ignorant, backwoods, uninformed hayseeds who think only what Bill O'reilly tells them to think). Thank gawd more and more Americans (like worldcitizen, bigbadwolf, etc), are starting to speak up, and reduce idiots like them to being in the minority.
You wanna support your troops?
Get'em the fuck outta there. Period.
You wanna make America a fantastic, fair and decent place?
Let ALL citizens have access to health care, without having to go into bankruptcy for it (this could at least be a start).
It's amazing, due to your inability to put together an articulate thought without swearing, how ignorant your tirade sounds. YOU sound like a soundbite - simplistic and biased with no answers, just criticisms. Typical liberal.
Canuck...you're not the brightest light in Canada but I will give you props for screaming loudly. I was waiting to be called a hoser...or, even a knob. That would have really gotten us conservatives down here in the awful USofA.
Glad to know there are people like you out there to defend. I knew the sweaty bag of mayonnaise had an audience, just didn't know who it was.
Wow...Michael Moore has been shown to routinely make things up on purpose. He is a liar of unequalled proportions and has been proven so, over and over again. Further, when he does have a point it is almost always from a socialist bent. If anyone believes anything this man has to say then God be with us. Once someone lies a couple of times they should cease being trusted. He can be indignant all he wants with sycophantic Blitzer but that does not change the known facts of his deceptions. When I am convalescing in my sunset years, Michael Mooore will be a forgotten pimple on the American landscape who had no more impact than to be an irritant.
Thanks for the compliments. Glad I could put to rest at least a quarter of the stereotype you seem to accept and go by. And as for "defending me"? Ummm...please stop, ok? Don't do me any favours. I've seen your examples of "defending" over the last 4 years, and I don't think the rest of the world can take any more of it. Also, please read things carefully before replying: I never once referred to the U.S.A. as being "awful". Certain ARE awful IN it: The Administration? Yes. Its health care system? Yes. Its foreign policy? Yes. Uneducated, ill-informed people like YOURSELF? Yes. The majority of Americans? A clear NO. It is THEY who make up your great land....not folks like YOU.
OH, and one last thing, my smug, flag-waving redneck friend: Mikey Moore has NEVER uttered ANYTHING in his documentaries that was proven to be false. At all. It's because he uses something that confounds the right wing: research. Ever hear of it? Probably not. But hey...if you can show me ONE instance, ONE claim that he made, ONE THING EVER...that was clearly proven to be false...please feel free to show me. I'll look at it VERY carefully. I promise.
In the meantime, go off and enjoy your convalescence. Pick up a book. Read something. Brush up on your atlas. Name the continents. Discover the world outside your borders.
You're upset because you think that I'm judging Michael Moore's film on my limited experience in Toronto's overcrowded hospitals, right? An experience which wasn't indicative of those that people have in the rest of Canada, and was therefore a bad example of the overall system, right? Fine. I'll address that later.
First of all, I want to say that the point of my post was to illustrate the fact that Moore ignored the bad parts of the Canadian system and concentrated only on the good parts. As I'm sure he did in Britain and France....and even more so in Cuba. My argument didn't have anything to do with which system was better than the other, or if any system is 'perfect' (another word I never used). However, the part of the film that I took exception to was the fact that Moore took the worst of one system, and compared it to the best of another. I find that this is a tactic he has used in a number of his films, and it only serves to discredit him and open the doors for harsh criticism. That is why I don't like him or his films. I think that his arguments would be much more effective if he gave a more accurate portrayal of the facts.
Now, with regards to your comment about how wait times in Toronto aren't indicative of the Canadian system as a whole - I don't really care if they are or aren't. Fact is, the wait times are terrible in Toronto. So bad in fact, that a lot of people go down to the U.S. to have certain procedures done. Why is it that people in Toronto, who pay just the same, if not more taxes than people in other parts of Canada, don't deserve the same allegedly short wait times at our hospitals? And don't blame the situation on Mike Harris, it was just as bad before he took office.
Finally, I want to comment on your style of writing. I'm sure you are a reasonably intelligent person, but when you resort to name calling and telling people to 'shaddap', you do nothing but discredit your arguments, and make it difficult for people to take you seriously. Hey, kind of like Michael Moore!
Also, you can refrain from giving me 'the benefit of looking at THE BIGGER PICTURE'. I can assure you that I have a very well rounded view, and I think that the air of superiority that you seem to conduct yourself with in your postings is both unfounded and unnecessary.
We can close this out with a simple question then:
Regardless of HOW Moore prtrayed his view in the movie, or how how he reprersented each side, WOULD YOU TRADE THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WE HAVE, WITH ALL OF IT'S IMPERFECTIONS AND SHORTCOMINGS, TO WHAT THE U.S. HAS AT THIS MOMENT----------AS IS?
Canuck...I have been to Canada and it is a beautiful country filled with lovely people. A little more federal dollars to education and less to health care and maybe another generation like you can be averted.
No, you never said America is awful and it might have been presumptuous of me to infer that from your arrogance. I apologize.
Did you just say our health care sysytem is awful? Spoken like a true socialist. I suppose the throngs of Canadians who don't want to wait fo basic care in Canada and come down here might see things differently. Perfect...no. Better than the rest...yes. (Last time I checked, I was responsible for my health care. Just because you cannot wipe your bottom without someone else's money...)
Uneducated...Ill-informed. Your state run media is doing wonders for your ability to critically think. Keep it up. Your GDP is that of Georgia's (US). You must be proud.
Here are a couple of instances of Moore's deceptions: http://www.davekopel.org/terror/59Deceits.pdf Many of these I could chalk up to error. But once he finds out he was wrong, why not come clean? This is a good starting point. I have no confidence that you will be persuaded. I used to think like you and it took over ten years for my brain to kick in.
My education and reading background are exceptional and I know a Cletus. One does not influence the other.
We will continue to defend the world, imperfectly. No one else, including yourself, has the courage or moral fortitude to do it.
I accept your apology. Likewise, I apologize for, and completely retract my stereotyped comments re: your up-bringing. I take you at your word you have visited here, and thank you for your kind assessment of our people.
Having said all of that, I DID look at your link....CAREFULLY. To be quite honest, just in the first few seconds, I picked out several inaccuracies in it. Some of it I was unsure of, but rest assured...I will dig further. However, this information that was featured in a counter-documentary to Farenheit 911, called "Farenhype 911". I watched that as well, and first thing I thought was "Wow. There's no solid info here. It's just a...smear piece. That's all. Whereas Moore showed all kinds of written/visual evidence, all this flick did was feature people who were not identified by name; a smug, self-righteous narration by Ron Silverman, and absolutely NO satirical wit. In short, this flick (along from what I've seen about your link so far....stay tuned) was nothing more than the usual "Fox News"-type attack. Nothing more. It kind of reminds of the Fox Networks attempt to counter the brilliance of Jon Stewarts "Daily Show", with something called "The Half-Hour News Hour". Suffice to say, it's absolutely lame and pitiful. Embarrassing to watch, even. Anyways, I go back to what I've said before...NO form of legal action has EVER been brought against Moore for anything, by way of libel, slander or even outright false reporting. A few bellyachers about copyrights and use of names...that's about it. Is that the best the RIGHT has got? C'mon.
"We will continue to defend the world, imperfectly. No one else, including yourself, has the courage or moral fortitude to do it."
Uhh, that's a pretty harsh thing to say. Canadian boys and girls are dying in Afghanistan as I type. We're there taking casualties NOT because WE were attacked....but our neighbours to the south. That's ALL. And as far as I can tell, our troops ARE performing their duties in the battlefield....with courage...AND moral fortitude. Precisely because we volunteered to stand by an historic ally (except for Iraq....you kinda blundered in there on your own for who-the-heck-knows-WHAT-reason now).
So what ya think? Maybe a little re-phrasing of that statement? Yes? No? You think about it.
You know a Cletus, huh? Well, you tell him he owes me MONEY and I WANT IT BACK (in Canadian funds, almost currently at par with the U.S. greenback).
You know Moore is feeding you bullshit because words are coming out of his mouth. CNN is right to point out his lies in this and past movies, and its too bad Blitzer is a total pushover. If somebody with a spine was hosting this show and a guy threw a tantrum and started crapping all over the truth and the network they'd cut his mike and apologise to the audience for what they just saw. Even still you could see the diff between real journalists and a guy like Moore. Has he ever promised to check his facts and correct them if needed? He's just not that kind of guy. As far as he's concerned if you haven't signed up for his crusade your a corporate nazi hack.
You might have a point, were it not for a couple of things here:
1. CNN failed to "point out any lies"; Moore's point was that because hindsight is always 20/20, history has proven him to be correct, and CNN and the rest of the mainstream have been proven to be wrong; in his view, they're simply repeating history, and he basically said "enough's enough already; stop with the slanted reports, and start doing yer jobs".
2. Moore never needed to correct his FACTS after his films came out; this is because he went over his material with a battery of lawyers and a hundred fine-tooth combs DURING the production, to make sure his i's were dotted, and his T's were crossed. Hence, what you have afterwards is people bellyaching and crying foul afterwards, while he sits there and says "Yeah? So? Where'd I go wrong?" And this was his whole point with Mr. Blitzer: if CNN and everyone had done their jobs and asked the hard questions (in other words, followed the same protocol of fact-checking like Moore BEFORE you broadcast your work) like they were supposed to in the beginning, then the chances are pretty well nil that Georgie-Boy would have been able to pull off anything (let alone an invasion); he sold a useless war to the American public, and Wolf and his media pals helped him do it. How come you're not indignant about THAT?
3. I'm unsure of what you meant by "crusade"; is this a personal opinion or observation? Or a cliched right wing catch-all phrase? Until clarification is forthcoming, I shall leave it at that.
4. Why should they "cut his mike"? What happened to free speech? And as for "crapping all over the truth", Cheney and his Boys have been doing that for years; can't say I've ever of heard anyone screaming for THEIR mikes to be "cut off".
so typical.. Americans never want to admit their country and health care system sucks. If he is feeding you bullshit there would be a lot more people out there disproving his facts. Fact.. your health care system sucks... the rich get richer and the poor get nothing. To think there used to be a time when Americans thought anyone can be president.. now thats impossible. Any millionaire with a ton of corporations in his can be President.... thats about it.
I never liked Michael Morre and often thought that he was bad for the anti-war movement, unfortunetly for you right wingers he's turned out to be right about the war, gun control, and US "health care." He's totally spanked you right-wingers on those issues and was instrumental in getting Americans to THINK critically about those issues, rather than just swallow GOP sputum without question.
So, if that fat sack of crap is right, what does that make you guys?
Wait...what was Moore right about? He lied about virtually everything and has been proven wrong repeatedly. What planet are you on? Head must be stuck in Uranus.
I have not trusted Michael Moore since Bowling for Columbine because of how much he lied and engaged in misinformation. He's not a documentary film maker but a radical liberal propagandist. That being said:
What is with the fetish he and other people have with socialized medicine? Why is the answer for something being broke to call in the government? The people who would be in charge of socialized medicine are the same people who destroyed and bankrupted Social Security and let our public school systems fall into disarray. How does putting them in charge of our healthcare make the problem less a problem?
Rather than have more socialism have more capitalism. Use anti-monopoly laws to take the caps off of medical school acceptances. Flood the market with doctors, this will drive the cost down. Change the patent law so that the 17 year countdown on protection for a pharmaceutical is from the time it hits the market and is not wasted while it is in FDA trials for 10 years. This would lower the cost of medicine as a company would have longer to recoup the cost of development. These are examples of how to let the free market make medicine cheaper and more available. It would not require the government to absorb the cost of everybody’s healthcare needs or impose more of its will on America. Socialism is a slippery slope from citizen to subject.
If you say it's a right, then yes, the government has an obligation to look after its citizens;
If you say it's a priviledge, then learn to be content at being #37 in the W.H.O.'s rankings (despite being the wealthiest nation).
And how come you trust the government to carry on two wars, and spend 12 BILLION DOLLARS A MONTH ON THEM, but you you wouldn't trust them to administer a universal health care plan? 12 billion bucks A MONTH??? Ya could have had a one-pay system YEARS ago. Somethin' wrong with that priority ya got there, Bro.
Beautiful link to the Yahoo news story - how can anyone argue that 12 Billion/month sunk into a useless war is better than the same spent on treating the ill or injured? Fantastic! The argument should end with those dollar signs.
fuerstjd, are you kidding me? "Why is the answer for something being broke to call in the government?" As far as I'm concerned, that is the point of the government: to fix what is broken in the country. Or are you saying that the government should just rule over what is both right and wrong in a country as opposed to fixing what is wrong and maintaining what is right????
Don't waste too much time with Canuck. He's not too bright.
Only a wealthy country (created by the blood and sweat of its mothers and fathers) would engage in a war to stop radical Islam from doing what it is bent upon doing. The cost has reaped some benefits but Stalin's children cannot hear nor see them with heir television sets turned up so loud...listening to state run media and watching fact-filled movies that only bash the country that made Moore wealthy.
Good luck with that.
I am a libertarian. It is my belief that the footprint of government should be as small as possible. In a free society, the people should ultimately take care of themselves and not rely on the government. The role of the government is not to fix the problems of the individual, that only ends with a bureaucracy so fantastically large it becomes the beast that cannot be fed. The government is too large already, turning over more power to it is a push in the wrong direction.
Healthcare is not a right, it is a privilege. Your basic rights are Life (not being executed by your own government for political ends), Liberty, and Property/Pursuit of Happiness, depending on who you follow. Free speech, petition, assembly, own firearms, not be tortured or imprisoned unjustly, these are your rights as an American citizen; not the right to have the government pay for every band-aid and sniffle. Look at how welfare has affected the black communities that live on it. Look at what happened to them after hurricane Katrina. They felt that it was their right to be rescued and fed and clothed and housed by the government, and barely lifted a finger to help them selves, and the only voices from the black community was how the government wasn’t doing enough. A whole generation of Americans did not invest in their retirement because they felt that social security would take care of them. What will happen to Americans when they feel that it doesn’t matter what they do, the government can and will come to their rescue and pay for all their medical expenses.
Private investment such as 401K and IRA accounts have much higher pay off than social security. Private schools provide a much better education than public schools. Why suddenly turn to the government to help you with your healthcare.
I am not saying the system is not broken, but turning control over to the federal government is the WORST possible remedy. How would you like to go from 30% income tax to 45% income tax to pay for your free medical care, a cost that is significantly higher than your insurance premiums. And then if you get cancer or diabetes having to wait months or years to get your treatment until the next fiscal cycle approves the quota on long term treatments.
It is not just about health care for me, its about the power and scope of the government. Its about both the Democrats and the Republicans wanting the same thing: a bigger government with more control. The Reps want a tyrannical theocracy. The Dems want a communitst state. Michael Moore is just a crazy to the left as George W. Bush is crazy to the right. Both are big government assholes. Liberty, capitalism, your rights of self determination; not tyranny, socialism, and being under the heal of the government that things it knows what is best for you more than you do.
I hate to break it to you, but that country you speak of being created by "the blood of your mothers and fathers"? Well, it ain't that country NOW. Foreign policy has been hijacked; decent Americans have been lied to; and the last 60 years of the U.S. policy of regime changes and installing puppet-governments has resulted in what your own intelligence community calls "blowback": Saddam...Osama.....Noriega....Pinochet...Batista....the Shah....ad nauseum....ALL were former employees and "assets" of Uncle Sam at one point in time.
See the pattern here, Streamer?
YOUR GOVERNMENT IS CREATING THESE SITUATIONS!!
So, like, chill out...and knock it off, ok?
Or seriously, dude, better yet...instead of labelling anyone as "socialist", or "leftist" or whatever...how 'bout you write to your pal Georgie-Boy, and tell him and his cronies to be nice, and STOP MEDDLING IN OTHER FOLKS' BACKYARDS??? And more importantly, to stop lying to the American people.
Face it, al you commie-pinko liberals! President Cheney is Right: Life is brutish and short, and if your heart is going to attack you at any moment, who cares what happens? All Hail Our Maximun Leader!
Moore shouldn't have behaved that way. He let his temper get the better of him and came off sounding like a lunatic. There's no situation that warrants that sort of behavior, even if the other guy is acting that way. Credit to Blitzer for attempting to stay focused.
Moore dose play loose with the facts...the "Facts" these days are found in publications that bend them to fit their agenda...notice at the end when Blitzer offers to tape and continue the debate and Moore refuses to do so because they might edit and take his statements out of context...THE EXACT SAME THING he dose in his movies...which are not documentaries, but are
political propoganda hatchet jobs.
So- wait- you don't want him to edit his films? How do you think films are made, johnsonf? Uncut, unedited- raw footage??? Just because he's a filmmaker who needs a profit, doesn't mean that he doesn't care about the message. And he obviously does or else he wouldn't be fighting it out- he'd just say 'yeah, it's a made up movie, get over it.' BUT IT'S NOT. So since he knows they WANT to take him out of context considered their viewpoint on the film (and they DO have one even though it's supposed to be unbiased news), he refused. In retrospect, he looked for the truth in his film, so why would he purposely try to take anything out of context?
I didn't see that. Look at the clip again; when Blitzer asks Moore to stick around and tape the rest of the interview, Moore basically says " WTF for?? You did a hatchet job on me three years ago; you did a hatchet job on me NOW; why the hell should I let you tape me, and then edit it as you please?" Botton line: as far as Moore was concerned, Blitzer and CNN had no further credibility in his eyes, to be (yikes!) fair
1 Oscar
1 Palm D'or
3 documentaries that raise public awarenes
The Right Wing:
3600 dead American kids
18,000 dead Americans every year, due to unaffordability for health care
Ann Coulter
Bill Oreilly
Sean Hannity
George W.
Dick Cheney
Ballz...If you think the Democrats are any better than the Republicans...you have you're truth blinders on...and I especially enjoyed his outrage because he was challenged on his facts...right to his face...that's so0 underhanded. Blitzer did'nt ask to speak with Chuck Heston under false pretenses and then keep the cameras rolling when he told them to stop...C'mon Moore is the left version of Rush Limbaugh, they're both just feeding fodder to their slop hogs.
Moore does what he does best in this clip; complain and whine. I don't care about what ever issues were brought up but how Michael Moore acted. The first thing Michael Moore says after the initial clip is to attack Wolf and ask for an apology instead of answering Wolf's questions. When you are invited to a news program to answer questions, you do not use it as a pulpit to ask for apologies and say that everyone else is wrong.
Everyone knows health care could be better but guess what, no one is doing anything except complaining about it. I haven't seen Sicko but I would like to know if Michael Moore suggests any ways to get universal health care here in the US
I don't think anyone other than a paid lobbyist is going to argue that private, for-profit insurance companies ensure patients get the best care.
Giuliani is correct in that private interests certainly work to reduce costs, but this is at the expense of good medical care (ever had a doctor recommended test turned down? It's infuriating.). Insurance companies also act rationally, if immorally, by denying claims and coverage to their clients once they get sick and need help. It's a nasty business.
Having experienced the joys of American and European health care systems, I have to admit socialized medicine is kind of like democracy, in that it is the worst system there is, except for all the others.
I hate paying the tax, but when you need health care there is nothing like socialized medicine. The doctor is in charge, there is nothing to clear with the bean counters and you can focus on resolving the health issue. As an American, it felt strange to be in a medical emergency and not have to deal with insurance issues.
Another great thing is you don't need a lawyer since there are no medical bills to worry about. Combine socialized medicine with tort reform - capping damages for pain and suffering - and that's two big productivity drains eliminated. (This will not happen - in America no sane politician will take on these two monied interests at once.)
A lot of people keep saying "fast and loose with the facts" yet no one ever substantiates that claim? How come?
Notice how CNN picks out certain element that are apparently "statistics" to "prove" that Moore is lying... they say... we're not paying $7000 for health care, we're payin $6096! lol It's all about perceptions.
So if y'all are so smart... then come out with some numbers instead of just opinions.
Canuck, you are so ignorant that you fail to comprehend how ignorant it is to comment on your own ignorance or lack thereof.
I'm assuming that young children visit Glumbert occassionally. Clean up you act moron or spend more time on the password restricted XXX sites you frequent.
Glas to see by the way that I'm constantly on your mind such that I garner unsolicited bantor from your bitter mind.
My Dearest Canuck1963: Thank you for laughing out loud at my rather vain attempt at satire. Put aside your Marx and read your Hobbes. Or get off the computer and watch "Duck Soup". After my quadroon maid makes the tea, I shall retire to my private screening room and do the same. Yours in utter sincerity, Lord Stutz
Thank YOU.....for showing even the most basic, fundamental principles of wit (I'm understating, of course).
Marx? Ummm....nope. I've always subscribed to "realism", more than "Marxism". Having said that, that fiery-tempered chrome dome was brutally wrong about "communism surviving, whilst capitalism strangled on its own rope." What a maroon.
"Duck Soup"? Nah. Sorry. I'm a "Room Service" fan. Or maybe "A Night At The Opera".
That makes absolutely no sense canuck - whether i was a child or not. Why should I be surprised though.
Same old short bus comments. You really do need to do another internet search for new material to pass off as your own. It's become quite tedious and repetitive.
I love it when Wolf gets kicked by the steel-toed boot. Moore is right to bring up the connection between corporate funding, media lies, the lack of proper health care and the Iraq war. It doesn't come out as sounding like a doctoral thesis, but why should it? The best way to get the basic ideas (I don't care about the pinpoint details) out there is to communicate to the everyday person, and that's what Moore does well. The problem with the right wing (media and otherwise) is that when they lie, they do so profusely and unconvincingly. I wasn't convinced about why we had to go to Iraq and I'm certainly not convinced that "socialized medicine" is the great Satan of health care. The notion that private enterprise can handle health care is bull crap. God helps us if we ever had to go thru a deadly epidemic the breadth of Spanish Influenza if HMOs had to handle the finances.
Did you all hear this ridiculous remark by his news colleague at the end? "Whatever CNN pays you, it ain't enough." This is what journalism should be like! Having live debates, even with uncomfortable guests! You all are paid too much for your over-edited pseudo news... wake up man.
Humm, some awfully bad memories around here. Or maybe these moore supporters never actually watched his films (Canuck, I'm looking at you). I have, and I don't believe in criticizing (or defending!?) movies that I haven't seen. For example, moore isn't pro gun control. At least he wasn't when he made bowling for columbine. The main thrust of that movie was criticizing america's violent culture and lack of parental responsibility. Which I'm totally fine with. I'm not fine with him staging scenes however, and passing it off as documentary. Which he did several times in that film. As per Iraq, moore portrayed it as a wonderfull place with smiling, happy people and kids flying kites. It never ceases to amaze me how liberals don't hesitate a moment to defame our own nation and president as fascist, yet can't bring themselves to criticize actual dictatorships! And where on earth did you get the idea moore goes over his shit with lawyers and experts? Any decent lawyer would have mentioned, in say a review of fahrenheit 911, that moore might want to check with Ray Bradbury before he stole the title! (Bradbury was pissed BTW) Now granted, moore often avoids the outright lie by making extreme use of insinuation. Often he is just leading the viewer right up to the cliff of conspiricy theory, then leaving the viewer to jump over herself. But more to the point, there's at least 1 absolutly proven lie in F911. Early in the film, after claiming that fox news decided the Florida election by calling it for Bush (actually the 3rd network to do so, and after prematurly calling it for Gore, opps) Moore flashes a newspaper headline that reads "Recount Shows Gore Won the Election". Just one problem, that headline doesn't exist, moore just decided it would be good to show a paper with that headline so he made one up!!!! He is an absolute exploiter of the gullible, nobody with and ounce of intellectual integrity should ever believe him, even if you agree with him.
well, the only positive about any of this is the clear passion involved in this topic as well as politics in general. I'm not gonna rail on either side, the man, wolf, media, or whatever. but KEEP this dialogue going. i only hope that most people participating are at least considerate enough to listen objectively to the 'other side' of the argument. anyone capable of having their mind changed on topics like these is a wonderful thing--but that relies on a willingness to accept that.
too many times the emotions involved in these topics cloud any legitimate reasoning or logical approach to understanding these topics.
I work in the media as a print journalist. Moore is absolutely RIGHT about dumbing down the news. CNN should be ashamed just like other national newspapers about letting this administration run amok of our system. The real problem is this: Successful journalist in the Beltway send their children and live in the same neighborhoods as these officials. They run in the same social circles. How would they know what small people, middle class Americans are going through when their own lives are sooooo comfortable. God please, please damn these people.
I'm a Canadain and here are my facts. I live in a city of less than 30k, with one hospital. In February of 2000 I was feeling some odd symtoms. I called my family physician and saw him the next day. I had an appointment with a surgeon to schedule a colonoscopy within two weeks. After the consult, the colonoscopy was done the next week. I received the news of coloretal cancer. I was back at the surgeon's office two days later. I had choices, I could have gone to a major city and had the surgery performed at a University Hospital Cancer centre. I had confindence in my surgeon and gave him the green light. I was in surgery ten days later. My rectum was removed and bowel re-attached. Two weeks in hospital to recover. Then six months of chemo and two months of radiation treatments at the regional cancer centre in the next major city about an hour's drive away. I was supported by social workers and home health care workers. Even needed a 2 AM call for a nurse to come to my home and reactivate my infusion pump. Then seven years of bi-annual check ups and tests. I'm am classified as cured. I had received I'm sure the equivant of almost a million dollars of care. And I mean care. What did it all cost for this care? Not a single dime....... I'm a humanist and I am so appreciative that I live in a country that belives that we should take care of each other. It's the human thing to do. Michael Moore is just trying to give your electorate a wake-up call, to consider a different path for your wonderful nation. I wish him every success in his mission.
Okay. I don't like Michael Moore. I think he is VERY loose with the facts. WHY? Because I am Canadian, I live in Toronto and I know first hand that he has grossly misrepresented our health care system to the point of flat out LYING in Sicko. I have seen his film....in fact, I downloaded it because I don't want to contribute to any possibility of another film directed by him. Regardless,
So you're judging the movie based on the health care services you recieved in TORONTO, right? A city with 2.5 million people, right? And you think that YOUR experiences are indicative of the system as a whole? You've been to Calgary? Winnipeg? St. John's? Vancouver? Montreal? And the system is ALL the same, right?
Maybe you better think a little more on this before you let your obviously biased hatred for Moore influence your opinions.
Isn't there more to be said about a health care system than wait times in an emergency ward? I also live in Canada, in a city of about 190K, and have never had any difficulty seeing a doctor or specialist at various times. I have heard anecdotes about people waiting a long time for some procedures or for more minor problems in emergency wards, but isn't that an awfully small price to pay? If I or anyone in my family needs to see a doctor, we just go to our family doctor or a clinic, and see a doctor usually very quickly. The odd time in my own life that we needed more intensive care, like when my wife was pregnant, or my infant daughter was hospitalized with an infection, there was simply no concern whatsoever that we were receiving less than top notch care from doctors or nurses, nor was there ever any concern that we were missing out on some form of treatment or procedure. And there was absolutely no concern about being cut off because of lack of money or insurance or some HMO plan bureacracy. I do not hold out the Canadian system as perfect, but it is certainly humane and I would not trade it for a private Amercanized system for anything.
continued from above..... I am certainly not saying that the U.S. system is perfect, or even very good, but to say that Canadians only have to wait between 10 and 30 minutes to see a doctor when they come to the hospital is absolutely ludicrous - I have had experiences myself when I have had to wait over three hours in order to even see a doctor. Of course it is better to get all of the care for free, but the fact that Michael Moore has misrepresented my system so badly make me think that perhaps he has misrepresented the NHS in Britain and France's system just as badly.....not to mention his depiction of the American system. Sensationalism is ineffective and works only to exacerbate the problem and further divide people on the issues. Speaking of sensationalism....I heard a little mention from Moore in this interview about Al Gore and how he is 'right about global warming'. Let's not even get started on that issue. Just the fact that Moore has the balls to say something that is so irrefutably false, discredits him even further.
Moore's whole point was not that the health care systems in Canada, Britain or France were perfect; rather, they were BETTER than what the U.S. has, i.e. a profit-driven system. Simple as that.
At one of his press conferences for "SICKO", a Canadian reporter asked him if he went to far in painting WAY too rosy a picture of what's going on up here; Moore then asked the reporter a simple question: "Well, if you say your health care system is that bad, would you trade it for what we have currently in the U.S.? Yes or no?." The Canadian reporter sheepishly shook his head, sat down, and basically shut his pie-hole.
And with that little exchange, it summed up the larger point of his whole argument.
HATE!!! That is the keyword used by Michael Moore. Liberals are so consumed with hatred, they base their arguments on hate. Notice how Moore MISQUOTED (!!!) Guilliani, he "hates" Medicare. I doubt that Guilliani, as a mature adult that he is, hates Medicare. But infantile intellects, which includes most liberals, attribute other people's opinions to hatred. Liberals and Democrats are always condemning capitalism and corporations because of their hatred for the free market system. Just listen to what they say about the capitalist system, it is obvious that Democrats hate free enterprise. The astounding thing is the hypocrisy of so many top Democrats who want to live the guilded lifestyle, while they want to condemn the rest of us to a socialist economic existance. The real solution to our health care crisis is to end the rampant socialism in the USA. End the income tax, let the free market work in health care like it has worked in computers, let doctors compete. But listen to the liberals squeal in rage at those suggestions!
So, like, it's okay to have a taxpayer-funded police department? A taxpayer-funded fire department? A taxpayer-funded military? A taxpayer-funded space program? A taxpayer-funded intelligence community (CIA, DIA, NSA, etc)? A taxpayer-funded war ($12 billion dollars a MONTH, and counting)?
It's okay to have all of THOSE items run like a form of "socialism".........
BUT....not a taxpayer-funded health care system, that would actually have a DIRECT benefit to average Americans?
Riiiiiiiight.
Whatever you say, Senator Mccarthy.
(AH you NOW, or have you evah BEEN....a membah of the Communist PAHTYY???? LOLOLOL)
um emj... this article is a great example of how things work in government these days... so if you think you're getting the real deal from those people you look up to you might want to do a little more research before name-calling the "other" camp.
No offense to someoneyouknow, but I bet most canadians couldn't give a rats ass about whether he made it or not. I'm sure the office tower janitor in Toronto has a warm and fuzzy feeling knowing that his outrageous taxes helped someoneyouknow, even though he's struglling to put food on the table for his own family. Back to teh product versus right question...
Interesting how you jump down mattyg's throat for using an isolated Toronto example, but support someoneyouknow's isolated example and refer people to it. Like I've said all along, you conveniently choose/ignore items to back into your warped logic.
Easy for you to say that the janitor doesn't care. You can ratioanlize the future give and take evening out over time 'cos you don't live paycheck to paycheck. He does and would much rather have $50 today for a known need versus $500 of potential aid that he may or may not need in the future.
1. I didn't "jump down his throat"; I was only giving him the benefit of looking at THE BIGGER PICTURE.
2. The second part of your post sums it all up. Too ludicrous to respond to. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it, I'll be watching with vested interest. Where YOU are concerned, it's become way too easy for me. Boring, even.
They're quite right about German health care though, I've really enjoyed the next-to-nothing waiting time here. I was really floored. It's really, really really significantly shorter than the US-- it's exceptional here. I don't care if the US is only #2 or whatever they tried to claim, in my opinion there is quite a bit of room for improvement.
Hey canuck1963, like usual, you lefties can't comprehend what the proper role of government should be in a modern human civilization. The proper role is this: protect people from the barbarians that want to hurt others, to protect our liberty, keep people honest with one another. If you've ever been introduced to some education, you would learn that government does a poor job of doling out the things that can be produced in the marketplace. If health care is SOOO vital that we need government to give it to us for "free" (like Michael Moore and the rest of you suckers think it is "free"), why doesn't government give us FOOD for free? Instead of supermarkets, we could have the Federal Meals on Wheels Food Kitchen deliver us our daily bread! Food is more vital than health care, right? I'm waiting for the lefties to climb on the socialized food band wagon; actually many of them would think it is a good idea so they can have government control obesity, which is another facet of the health care issue. When you lump in the police and military with medicine, you obviously have no concept of how a free market works. (The term "free" market is different than "free" health care, free markets aren't controlled by government, free health care is just a shell game where the cost is picked up by someone else, but ends up costing more because of increased government bureaucracy)
When outright creatures of stupidity like yourself keep coming out of the woodwork, and simply beg to get bitch-slapped, it's truly does get kinda...I dunno...boring. And then I can't be bothered.
Ok . Here are some more of my facts. 30 years ago I visited my father's sister in Pacifica CA, outside San Fran. She was 84 and using a walker. A lovely person who had served three churches in the Bay Area as their choral master for fifty years. In a conversation she mentioned her fear of having a fall and breaking her hip. I asked why. She said " I would have to die" I asked why. She said " I cannot get medical insurance and so could not get treatment for the broken hip, I would have to lay in charity hospital till I died. My heart shook, is this what happens in the beautiful USA? And I have a neice who currently lives Santa Monica. Her husband has medical coverage through his employer. With their first child, they were told that the birth may have to be by cesarean. One problem, there was not an anaesthetist who would do the surgery. In the whole LA area not one anaesthetist does cesarean procedures because these doctors can not have the malpractice insurance to cover them for this. Again I could not believe my ears. Fortunately their baby made it without the cesarean. But as a parent would you want to have that kind of fact to live with as your first child is about to be born? I feel there are two kinds of socialism. Socialism for the rich. Socialism for the populace. It's just your point view which you see it as. I wish the amount of hate in your heart was not viewed as a measure of what it takes to succeed in as a capitalist. Success from the misery and even death of other human beings is shameful. The U.S. is a great nation. It has so many truly wonderful citizens. What is the shame in trying to make it a more just and thus greater nation? It's shameful not to even try.
I was simply using my experience in Toronto to illustrate how Moore is only depicting the best part of the Canadian health care system. This is a problem because it leads the rational mind to believe that he is likely doing the same with Britain, France and Cuba. The reality is, when Moore stretches the truth and is routinely loose with the facts (an epidemic problem in his films), he only opens the door for harsh criticism.
Finally, I would just like to offer you a word of advice. I'm sure that you are a reasonably intelligent person, but when you resort to name calling and telling people to 'shaddap', you only serve to undermine and discredit any pertinent points that you may have made in your post. I think we can all do without your antagonistic tone.
Also, you can refrain from giving me 'the benefit of THE BIGGER PICTURE'. I can assure you that I have a very well rounded view.
We can close this out with a simple question then:
Regardless of HOW Moore prtrayed his view in the movie, or how how he reprersented each side, WOULD YOU TRADE THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM WE HAVE, WITH ALL OF IT'S IMPERFECTIONS AND SHORTCOMINGS, TO WHAT THE U.S. HAS AT THIS MOMENT----------AS IS?
It's not a matter of how 'well rounded' the question is, I just don't spend my entire day on the glumbert.com forums waiting for your replies.
In answer to your question - of course I wouldn't trade the Canadian system for the American system! That's a pretty silly question. Besides, I never even mentioned anything in ANY of my posts about which system I thought was better than the other, or whether I would trade one for the other.
Michael Moore's attempt to draw attention to this issue isn't a bad idea, in fact it's absolutely necessary. The American system needs some serious reform. What I take exception to, is the fact that he is being a sensationalist and being loose with the facts. And as I said before, sensationalism is ineffective and works only to exacerbate the problem and further divide people on the issues.
I think that his film is going to do more harm than good to the issue of health reform in the U.S. - but I guess we'll see....
Please note - There wasn't any offensive tone in my reply, or any profanity, or mocking, or belittling insults.....take a hint. I think that you have a lot to learn about proper debating.
Thank you for answering the question. This is the MAIN point I've been hammering on these threads for the gazillionth time.
As to my so-called "debating style", sure; I'm the first one to concede that my system of delivery sometimes leaves a lot to be desired. Actually, if you'll notice, it's that small minority of our next-door cousins who immediately initiate hostility and defensiveness, using the ol' "antiAmerican" or "Leftist" labels when faced with the tiniest of questions or critcisms. Don't like to believe they're in the majority, though.
And to be quite honest, the only issue I had with yourself is this: when I read your previous entries, it brought things a little closer to home for me; that is to say, lately I'm really annoyed at some of our fellow countrymen bitch and complain about the health care system here (and there ARE those that do; that comes with not having a perfect system and I never said it was), and yet, in the same breath they'll STILL say they wouldn't ever want to live in the U.S. under their system. To me, their hypocritical whiners. They critcize and moan about their system, yet recognize the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. I have way more respect sometimes for even my hostile American critics, because at least THEY stick up for their system with a passion, no matter how right or wrong anyone else thinks it is. At least it's consistant, and you tend to know what side of the line you stand with them.
No hostility intended towards you, or your point of view.
My, oh my. I long for the day when I can come to one of these threads without having to experience Canuck1963's vain attempts to belittle people. Seriously canuck, what is your problem????
Glad to see the 52 million who voted for Ernest T. Bass ~ AGAIN! in 2004 are still letting their voices be heard. Or read. Me, if I'd voted for the guy, I would have had the common courtesy to kill myself.
You know, it's called "accountability."
Oh, right. You people know nothing of the concept.
First a note to all the amateur historians, fact-checkers and statistitians out there: After "Fahrenheit 9/11" was released, Michael Moore made an offer (which stands to this day) of $50,000 cash to anyone who could prove any falsehood in the film.
WHAT'S THAT ~ NO TAKERS? Okay, let's move on.
To grueslayer:
You wrote: "... America would be just as inhumane as the dictator they took out of power..."
This statement would imply that you didn't realize it was the U.S. who made Saddam into the evil despot he became, the so-called "Butcher of Baghdad."
You see, back in the day...
When Iran was more dangerous to us than Iraq (which, in fact, has NEVER been a danger to the U.S.), the U.S. military propped up Hussein every way imaginable. Cash, arms, equipment... you name it, he got it.
Yes, he evolved into a dictator over time, but it wasn't without all the encouragement we could muster.
In the weeks preceeding this insane, immoral and illegal war, the White House, with considerable help from the media, made Hussein out to be the Dr. Evil of the Middle East.
If he is ever captured, we were told, it could take months if not years, seeing how Saddam was "known to have at least a half a dozen or more underground lairs, all outfitted with high-tech security. (THEY MUST'VE MEANT THE 'SPIDEY-HOLE' FROM WHICH HE WAS EXTRACTED A FEW WEEKS FOLLOWING THE INVASION. PLENTY OF TIME FOR SADDAM TO HAVE DISMANTLED THE SERENTINE MAZE OF DECEPTION BENEATH THE GROUND AND MOVE TO HIS ADMITTEDLY MORE MODEST ACCOMODATIONS. TOO BAD HE FORGOT HIS SHAVING KIT, HUH? OH, WELL. THE GUY DIDN"T HAVE TIME TO REMEMBER EVERYfuckingTHING.)
We read about WMD's. (STILL UNFOUNDED. AND, UH ~ UNFOUND.)
We heard of yellow-cake from Niger. (CUE DICK CHENEY. SEE SCOOTER OUT VALERIE PLAME FOR BEING MARRIED TO JOE WILSON FOR NOT COMING BACK FROM NIGER WITH THE "RIGHT" KIND OF EVIDENCE. SEE DICK THROW SCOOTER UNDER THE BUS. SEE SCOOTER GET CONVICTED BY 12 JURORS. SEE ERNEST TEE SET SCOOTER FREE. "WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!")
In watching the news night after night, I often thought, "How many times can they run the exact same footage of the exact same so-called 'mass graves' he allegedly filled with every soul who looked at him sideways? And then, were a reporter to question the necessity or even morality of the invasion, you could see the gears turning in poor Scott McClelland's punkinhead: "Mass graves. Mass graves. Mass graves."
My God, if there really were hundreds of mass graves scattered across the countryside in Iraq, why did we, along with the rest of the world sit idly by and watch?
The fact is, after Desert Storm, the economic sanctions imposed against that country were responsible for at least one million innocent Iraqis dying. Most of them, sadly ~ children and the elderly.
Do you know that when Saddam "gassed his own people," which is a ridiculous phrase to begin with since Saddam Hussein was not Kurdish, nor could he abide them ~ the silence from Washington was deafening.
A representative of the Kurds travelled to this country, hoping to get some members of Congress to sign a document of official condemnation of the act. "Sorry," he was told, "Congressman Dipshit has a lunch date already scheduled."
NOT A SINGLE MEMBER OF EITHER HOUSE WOULD EVEN MEET WITH THE MAN.
Gee, I wonder if Saddam felt THAT bitch-slap all the way over in Baghdad...
Perhaps the fact the chemicals used in the deadly assault had been supplied, free of charge, by the U.S. to Saddam, may have had something to do with the reluctance. Ya think?
Yet in the days prior to the invasion, once again the tepid and timorous members of the White House Press Corps tip-toed around every issue. If the reasoning behind "Operation Shock
and Awe" ~ the purpose for such an attack, as it were, came under fire, one could visualize Press Secretary McClelland again (CUE PUNKINHEAD WITH THOUGHT BUBBLE READING: "Gassed his own people. Gassed his own people. Gassed his own people.")
By the way, how many of you out there even remember the catchphrase from hell, "Operation Shock
I just noticed this post....got me laughing like crazy...mostly 'cuz I just got a picture in my head of you sitting there and actually saying "OH MAH GAWDS!!"....
I don't support Moore's form of journalism and it's definately slanted. But given that the bulk (98%) of Americas media is sponsored by corporations and continually has a right wing bent then I don't mind someone like Moore jumping up and down on the scales trying to counterbalance and give weight or attention to the issues that matter (no pun on Mikes body shape there). What he does isn't journalism and isn't objective in the slightest - he's just pissed off that US foreign policy is determined to focus attention outside of the US borders so home policies aren't addressed.
Whar America needs is a preferential voting system where if you vote for a party and they don't win or even come close they pass their votes on to the party of their choice. That way your vote isn't wasted if you vote for the Greens or Rifle Association to mention the extremes. The next party in line to inherit those votes have to make promises to that party so it has a voice even if it doesn't win. Back in 2000 when there was a big swing away from the Democrats to Ralph Nader it meant that people were swinging a little more to the left. Ironically it also meant that their votes were wasted and America got an uba-conservative government.
Now the fear in inherent in the subconcious of Americans and, just as the rhino who is virtually blind will attack a moving shape to be on the safe side, America has for real increased its enemy numbers through its "pre-emptive strike" policy. Don't stop voting though!
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