Thank God that one kid in black has a brain ... kind of shows the averages out though ... it's all part of the plan folks ... keep em dumb and they'll follow like the sheeple we are !
I think it's just your memory.. Cause she have had to know if she graduated college and i'm sure if she had ample time, she probably could've remember.. i think.. i may be giving her tooo much credit... dunno..
and i think you guys helped us out in the war and i tip my hat to that.. Smashing the Germans with us
I would say it's a question of what's profitable. We are educating our children through mass media without even realizing it, and mass media is primarily used to advertise. Schools have become obsolete as a result. Mass media is establishing priorities in childrens lives, whereas schools are simply regarded as a period of time to be endured.
Case in point: The i-pod. The i-pod is an essential fashion accessory. It's wierd not to have one. Somehow, it's become not only acceptable, but "civilalized" to tune out the world around you.
Look at cars. Mass media is far more successful at teaching our kids that it's pretty damn crucial that you own a car. At the same time schools try to teach kids that war is bad, taking advantage of people is bad, pollution is bad, etc. Who is winning?
Also, the problem is heriditary and evolutionary. The kids that learn bad habits (behave acceptable as dictated by mass media) today not only teach it to their own children, but can also become influential enough in mass media industry to dictate what is acceptable behavior.
It's all about money and power. We all know it shouldn't be, but we rarely does anyone actually do something about it without becoming a social outcast.
I gave her five minutes to answer the question (the correct answer, of course, being Germany, Japan and Italy; she couldn't even get ONE right). And yes, you are correct in Canada fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with our American cousins. This is what's happening now in Afghanistan, but sadly, very little coverage of it in the mainstream media (there OR here).
Hey Canuck, you forgot to mention Hungary, Romania, the Slovak Republic, Bulgaria, Croatia (particularly nasty fascists they were) and, of course, the Vichy French (collaborators). How many Canadian airmen were betrayed by those two-faced traiterous yellow frogs I wonder?
Actually Andy, there WERE quite a few airmen of the R.C.A.F. who were turned over to the Nazis by French collaborators, after they were shot down. Gutless pricks. And yes, you are quite corerct in naming those other tribes...BUT....Germany, Itlay and Japan were the "official" Axis Powers. Those other ones were small-fry, who were either Nazi satellites, or simply took a pathetic opportunity the Nazis gave them, and thereby used that status to grind their own axe against their traditional enemies (the Croats vs. the Serbs, for example).
You asked a gal the question and she said "I don't know." You didn't specify which country she lives in. If it was the U.S. than it could be just the U.S. education system. I'm going to "assume" (such a horrible thing to do) that you asked a Canadian who Canada was at war with in WWII.
This is what happens when you let the 'State' take over anything. Decay, waste, deterioration, breakdown, disintegration, and eventual collapse. Vote RP!
This is precisely what happens when the State is in charge of education. (Which is why the Constitution does not imply or instruct a Federal Education department.)
The more cynical believe a dumbing down is by design, in State run edumacation. (More ignorami, more dependents, more argument for State management.)
Streamer, Get with the program. When the constitution was written people lived miles from each other. There was no infrastructure then. Kinda like the original bill of rights didn'tmake any allowance for desegregated busing. There were NO BUSES dickwad....
Your video is great in exposing a problem but your conclusions as to the cause and the solution is very limited. It is itself and example of the lowering of logical thought taught in schools. I do not mean to be harsh but look deeper before coming to the conclusion you have identified.
For example you find fault with the states having control of education and see the solution being a more central Federal control.
The logical flaw is 50 states would “likely” produce 50 different outcomes just as 50 different nations have 50 different outcomes in their education. You gave England and India as examples but did not look for that in the 50 states. I assume the overall dummying down is across the country in all 50 states but that is an assumption.
First look at the trend across the 50 states, if nation wide the problem must be something else. One possible answer: The central government is controlling more than you assume. Another possible answer is cultural trends, both in the society in general as well as a subgroup that has disproportionate influence in the public schools such as teachers and colleges.
Look hard at Federal influence and see if state control is influenced by regulations, funding, and court mandates.
Look also at the culture. Does the culture think highly of the highly educated? What trends are the education professionals promoting? Look at these trends over time.
You can do much the same with all the conclusions you mention and you will see many things are creating the very problem you cite.
I doubt the testing system is the real problem. A close look at a test to “GET” into high school in 1910 would make a college graduate weep. The problem has been in the works for a century and this trend has been across the country. In 1910 not every student was expected to get a high school degree. A man with a 6th grade education could read what one expects from that grade level but today a man with a college degree could not tell me what the Federalist Papers say about the rights of states or why pure democracy was dangerous.
I used to ask college graduates if they had to read that in college and never ran across a single one who said “Yes” he or she had to read it, including one who had a degree in criminology. No wonder so few are bothered by a court ruling such as Kelso v New Haven. Your solutions show a real lack in understanding in civics and basic government. You recognize that the Constitution does not mention education. It does in the 10th Amendment but not by name. Read it and you will see why it does not need to. Read the Federalist Papers and see why.
The problem is even lawyers are taught to ignore the 10th Amendment when taking their bar exam. It is never the right answer no matter the question on the law, or so the bar exam coaches tell you. If they do not teach lawyers this what makes you think they want an educated public.
mitos i do not understand what you are attempting to argue. you pose many questions and criticize then draw an occasional conclusion (from an assumption) but offer little proof otherwise. please be more candid
So dick, you know the Federalist Papers and I'm fluent in 3 languages. Does that mean you're smart and I'm not? I am and you're not? No, we are all diversifying like a mofo- our world is ever more complex. We're smart at our own thing. The problem is in the comparison. Look at countries like South Korea where parents force students to study from sun-up until they go to bed to pass standardized tests. America is great because we are creative, we're innovators, and generally we're pretty damn smart when and where it counts. I'm proud of our country, tests be damned.
“I do not understand what you are attempting to argue”
I was not attempting to argue but I was attempting to get them to think where they got their conclusions. I implied they were picking them up from the same system that is doing the dumbing down of the public. Their conclusions were based on an error about education and who controls it. I was only offering them a few excuses to ask more questions before coming to their conclusion.
For aardvark
“So dick, you know the Federalist Papers and I'm fluent in 3 languages. Does that mean you're smart and I'm not? I am and you're not? No,…”
Sorry son I did not mean to awaken anyone’s self-esteem issues.
I brought up the Federalist Papers only because it was a basic part of education in this country and would have prevented these students from reaching the conclusions they did. It is a basic civics lesson and it is a shocker to me that people who should know it, due to their profession, do not. It is not their fault if it was never taught to them or even assigned reading. It would be a lawyers fault if he had been assigned that book and then ignored it or forgot the information it provides. His education was not determined by him. God bless him if he sees the fault and makes the remedy himself but that does not help others.
The Federalist Papers was only given as an example. The students do not know it because the teachers do not know it and their college professors do not know it. This problem has been a long time in building.
Self esteem issues are a different topic not directly related to the subject at hand.
1.03 mil, that's sick'ing, what is it, 170 mil $ a day -: 1= $ like I don't know $168.03673 to kill each victim/enemy/poor/in the wrong place at the wrong time. In short, it awful
Ya wonder why todays generation is "dumbed down"? Well, lemme tell ya something (as one small example): when I watched the Commander-Dummy-Guys State Of The Union address the other night, he spoke GLOWINGLY about how Afghanistan was now a "young democracy", right? Yet just six days ago a young Afghan reporter was sentenced to death in Afghanistan and the case points to the return (as some fear) of both judicial extremists and the continuing power of the warlords:
Canuck- No context, no context, no context.
Illiterate, illiterate, illiterate.
Growing/fledgling democracy noes not equal democracy. Please, for the love of all who can understand English, read about how countries (USA being one) develop into a democracy or a republic. It happens over generations and it is ugly...involving clashes of ideologies, leaders, cultures...You have shown yourself to be utterly indifferent to processes, time and context.
Further, it is not the duty of Congress to call the shots in a war. (This would be a great time to read my nation's Constitution and see where the powers are shared and when the (OMG) Commander in Chief has to call shots.)
Remember, C...tell the truth here and you will be rewarded with honest dialogue.
You said it before: Saddam wasn't the bad guy, GWB was/is.
What the educational system needs desperately is a return to the classics where critical thought was at the top of the agenda. Case in point: Canuck, the Regurgitator.
Your reasoning is impregnable. Yeah, not a war going on there, its simply an occupation.
Thank goodness there is an election where all the candidates are singing your tune.
BTW-remember when Congress voted to give GWB the authority?
(You do, but that kills any point you think you have. Hey, was that Constitutionally allowable?)
C-
How many times have we used troops when no declaration was made? Is it allowable in the Constitution? What part of the Constitution allows for our troops being controlled by NATO (Serbia-your favorite cause) or UN? How would our Constituition be used to send troups to Darfur?
Serbia was about the only example in recent history when a military intervention was just and resulted in a positive outcome. And it was not only the USA acting there.
And talking about constitutions: Germany has a constitution that expressly forbids it to use our troops for anything but self defense (historical reasons should be obvious), so what are we doing in Afghanistan?
There is quite a difference between a UN mission in an area of civil war and assault on a souvereign country.
Bug...are you sure about that?
What part of our Constitution or yours authorizes its military to be under the control of another authority?
So, other country's civil wars are ok...just not defense of our own country.
Is that what I am reading in your comments?
Please say no.
You are always reading what you want to read instead of what is written...
Humanitarian missions are OK, self defense is OK, but raping a country for its resources is a fucking crime. GWB and his minions should be put in custody and charged by the international court.
Whew.
Thanks, Bug. I knew you would effectively clear that up.
So, who defines humanitarian? Your humanitarian mission may not be mine. I do know this: you have no place to root your humanitarian causes. It is purely subjective to you.
Our Constitution says nothing about the questions I asked you AND you made no attempt at answering them. Like canuck, it boils down to this: If you like a war, you rationalize it on any and all a contrived ground. If you dislike it, you do so for the same rationalizations.
Japan did attack the USA before the USA went after them. And if the USA had not supported Russia and England then Germany would have sacked all of Europe and probably gone for the USA next. I am not yet talking about the atrocities that had to be stopped.
So allied actions in WWII were definitely in self defense and humanitarian interest. The one thing that could be asked there is: Why did the USA take so long to start action?
But how do you justify: Vietnam Grenada Panama Nicaragua
Even the Taliban are a US creation as is bin Laden.
Bug...let's make one thing clear: It is pure mythology and legend that the Taliban and/or UBL are direct or indirect creations of the CIA. Please. That has been debunked so many times that you undermine any remaining credibility you have by citing those defeated canards.
Now, I don't defend the wars you mentioned on the same grounds as I defend Iraq. I was attacking your rationale, which seemed to be: sovereign nations cannot be attacked unless they directly attack us first. (sounds stupid when said outloud.)
So, if we had found out about Japan's intent to bomb Pearl Harbor, would we have been right to strike first? (Follow this one out to its logical end.)
Finally, there are other reasons that bring about war that have nothing to do with first strikes and threats. You and Canuck have a hard time distinguishing.
Pearl Harbour: It was kinda stupid of the USA to be caught with their pants down the way it happened.
But it quite nicely illustrates a big US American weakness: The total inability to understand other nations. Having some guy in the intelligence service learning Japanese language is simply not sufficient, like having only few dozen people in CIA capable of Arabic.
And mythology and debunking: Your wishful thinking, nothing else.
But only a few inches above you said it was not a war.
When things suit an absurb point, you use them. When they contradict your position you are left with sarcasm.
Though the distinction is somewhat lost on me when looking at it from the viewpoint of a country being attacked. On the other hand it should mean something to the people in a democratic country that did the attack.
Canuck...so many hits on the head with my frying pan has made you delirious.
Actually, your self-absorption is what makes you delirious...oh, and not being able to sort through nuance, context and things like that.
Did I mention self aggrandizement?
You may have the last word here since that is what calls you.
I bulieve that the, uhh, Amerikans and such, are sum of the smartest because of George dubya. We, the Amerikans joined together with the Kalifornians can make shoes for China.
A short story. I don't write well but I have to tell ya all this one.
During winter Xgames at mt snow I was a patroler, This kid got hurt(minor) his last name was Palmer. He was 20-25, very rich, had world records in speed stuff, motocy's, he skied, snowboard, free fall, base jumping and any other way to kill ones self.
As I was treating him, he said "i have to be in new hampshire tue, is it a long ride?" Depends what do you thing is long I asked ? He said well how many states do I have to drive through?
I told him to get a map.
So, that young and ,,,anyway you get the story
These are 18 year olds doing a class project pretending they know something about education. They just know how to pick out negative statistics to seem smart.
Grow up, get educated, then comment on education.
people under 20 don't care about old stuff, did u when u were 18 ?all I cared about was getting blown or laid by the opposite sex ...the bigger the breasts the better!
"of the 12 California state university colleges, 60% of students need remediation; a Florida study showed at least 70% of recent high school graduates need remedial courses when they enter community college - - in other words, they need to learn material they should have mastered in public high school - but did not - -." Source: USA Today, pg. 14A, November 24, 1997.
CSUS press release "California SAT scores dip, mirroring national trend Oakland Tribune, Aug 29, 2006 by Grace Rauh, STAFF WRITER It could be the writing section, the more advanced math questions or the lengthening of the new SAT by 45 minutes.
But whatever the reason, one thing is certain -- the average SAT score for last year's college-bound seniors dropped by the greatest number of points in 31 years.__"
Since 1965 cali has spent more than 50% of the entire state budget on education, resulting in constantly diminishing returns, that is huge. on top of that last year taxpayers voted to bond $10billion for education,
Chuck--you have made a great point. Spending on education has gotten us where, in the USA? No one is smarter because more money was spent. Values have changed, and education has slipped on the priority list, both culturally and societally.
This is a transliteration in any case, so there is a kind of standard for writing his name but it varies with the language, in Germany we write "Ghandi".
Its not the kids that are messed up. It's the system.
Teachers are given the ultimatum to teach standardized tests to get their students to pass or else they lose their job. It's not a requirement that k-12 students a certain amount of standardized tests in order to graduate in Virginia.
Teachers can't really do anything about it because it's either they teach the test and make their students pass or they get fired and dont get tenure, and as a result they never instruct on a basis on true values of learning. You can't teach a test and expect students to really learn something valuable out of the class.
It's also that assclown's No Child Left Behind act, decreases education funding by crazy amounts and states as a result are crippled with lack of resources for public education. No Child Left Behind my ass!
Hell if I were in school when they made you pass standardized tests to graduate, I'd be fucked. I'm not a good standardized test taker, I never was. I remember as a child I used to bubble in Vs.
Its a bunch of bullshit and I say give the teachers the ultimate power to decide what to teach and what not to teach. For God's sake most are required to get a Masters in Education, so why don't they let them apply their Masters degree material in schools for conducive learning.
Here's the difference... these teachers grew up hearing about these leaders. In 30 years, when these kids are teachers themselves, they will be shocked when their students have never heard of Clinton. Saddam Hussein. Whoever... and the cycle will continue. Ask the teachers to defrag a fucking hard drive, and watch the kids make fun of them right back. They should just STFU and teach, not make the kids feel dumb.
Not quite. Edison was not exactly contemporary for todays teachers, Gandhi neither (killed in 1948). Of course the lesser of the "historic" figures will fade from memory and general history lessons.
I think you could look at it this way. The U.S. has a war to fight and they are running out of cannon fodder. So a good idea is to take cash away from the education budget, and plough it into the army, thus starving education of its much needed resources, so then the kids get fed up of school and start to drop out. The drop outs then have no qualifications, so look to the army for their future, hence the army gets its cannon fodder.
Uneducated cannon fodder is easy to control (here is a gun, point and shoot at anything that moves). What a great nation you live in.
Does any1 know whats with the sudden surge of spammers very annoying and could see it ruining our comment section what can we do about this problem thats disrupting my non existing life??????????
(I mean let's be sensible here....HE don't like'em, because it only reminds him that he's in a VERY small club....in other words, MORE people see sensibility than HE does)
Riight...because the movement of the masses is historically described as "sensible."
Which is it, C: Adulation from the "masses" that you need or inclusion with the elitists? Or, both?
Hmmmm...this is intersting. If you could be part of the elitists, then you might be adored by the masses, whom you deem to be geniuses for loving you as much as you do.
What would you do?
How would you respond?
What makes you think the (besides making strawman arguments) US would want to get involved?
Wait, you answered your own question...so, why did you post it again?
"Cali, actually I sort of like the idea of the war...you know, risking/laying down your life for your neighbor/brother, or the off-colored man you don't know. A cool concept when you think about it."
----------A Great quote from Streams Posse, nicely backing up my viewpoint.
Thanks guys!!
See, Stream??
So smarten the fuck up, and try doing some altruistic GOOD for a change!!!
He also forgot to mention the car crashes, snakebites and lawsuits.
This really is a silly point to make.
I suppose you don't understand that birthing a democracy/republic is a tough thing with warring factions and disagreeing parties. Parties that disagree so much that they would rise to violence.
Just like you have threatened me...an axe and a tranquilizer gun.
See, you're just like the extremists who don't get their way...violence by way of hissyfit.
OHHH NOOOOO STREEEAAAMMMM!!! Remember what I told you a couple of months back? Well, guess who is DEFINITELY leaving Georgie-Boys fucked-up party as well:
Did you read the article? Obviously not.
Did you catch the part about going to Afghanistan and "helping in other ways?"
This is hardly news.
Please read the stuff you send. Further, Australia makes its own decisions and has enthusiastically backed us and mirrored many of our sentiments and positions on the war.
streamlined " Australia makes its own decisions and has enthusiastically backed us and mirrored many of our sentiments and positions on the war" - correction - johnie howard had is ass so far up GWB that he couldnt see or tell what the majority of australians wanted to do.
Why ya givin' Mr. Teeny there the gears like that? Huh? All he did was voice an intelligent opinion on how a certain leader got raked over the coals and losing his job for even being SEEN with Georgie-Boy.
MrteenyIQ- How are you so familiar with what is up GWB's pooper? Is this an area of your expertise or just a passion? i keep trying to respond to you streamlined IQ but my posts are getting cut short. Anyway canuck1963 has you pegged!
canuck1963 once again your wisdom has enlightened me your right moms a sacred. But streamlined can be so OBTUSE. he hit below the belt first but your right my dad once told me if you walk with a donkey you become a donkey so i shouldnt go to streams level.english is my 2nd language so i had to look up - behooves thats a new word for me thanks canuck1963.
Illiteracy moment...Canuck, go back and read what I wrote when I referenced your mom. It was not a maternal slam. I simply acknowledged that she chose not to abort you, for which you should be grateful.
I think you are still angry at that. All because you misunderstood what I wrote and its context.
So, you didn't go back and read it.
I have to blame the reader here...as often is the case, your reading skills are less than grade school, C. Just like when you send articles that, by headline, support your views but then don't read the article itself, that often times, doesn't.
C- Point of correction.
You keep referring to me as a neocon. You are very, very mistaken. I am a conservative who sees a small role for the Fed Gubment. The neocons see an active Fed Gubment. (This includes GWB, and it makes me sick.)
But, keep showing your ignorance, bigotry and illiteracy...keeps me coming back.
STREAM! OH NO! YOUR good buddies, the Saudis, seem to have....well.....stabbed the Commander-Dummy-Guy in the back.
What nerve. Stream!
Aren't the Saudis kinda YOUR favourites, there Stream?
Ain't THEY supposed to be YOUR buds?
You know...the theocratic dictatorship that Georgie-Boy shows so much gosh-darn love for? The counrty that is NUMERO UNO in breeding the kinds of folks who LOVE to kill Americans??
Why would they want to help. They can just stand by and watch the US bleed itself to death by pouring all its wealth and energy into the sand.
It's very much like Napoleon in Moscow he knew he couldn't hold it, and the Russians knew he couldn't hold it. Just wait, and let the environment win the war.
I see you are still a racist.
AQ = Saudi's...so, all Saudi's are bad.
Also, don't you whine and moan when people confuse governments and people when they complain?
Thank goodness they went in there for "humanitarian reasons" and "WMD's".....huh, Stream?
My favourite part in the whole item was this (it's a real gas!):
"....... It may opt, instead, for a partnership with an oil services company, such as Halliburton or Schlumberger, which would then supply the technical expertise to develop the field and related pipelines to Syria for processing and export."
Some recommended reading: Daniel Yergin - The Prize
While he concentrates a bit too much on accounting all reasons for comflicts to oil he definitely does a fine documentary of the history of the oil industry and the ruthless political power play for it. Also it gives you a good idea why many people in the Persian gulf do not exactly like the USA.
One at a time for the beleaguered:
1. The Pakistani Judiciary...what is the point? Mussharef is an ally for the time being. GWB has chosen not to press this issue until after the elections. Why do you have a problem with this? You are an amazing intellect, next to MrTeenyWeeny. Here is your hypocricy on Pakistan exposed: You claim you want us there to pursue UBL, since that is where he is. If so, I assume you would want to do this with as much cooperation form the current gubment there. So, why do you gleefully attempt to show our love for a "dictatorship" as a bad thing, when you have been asserting that is where our focus should be?
2. Since you quoted something in this article beyond the headlines, I assume you read it all. That article was one of the best supports for our being there and what we would like to do. (Don't know if you caught the part about security improving in the previously war-torn area...I know you did because you are so literate.) Would it be a bad thing for those oil/gas reserves to be developed by the Iraqis? You obviously believe so.
Keep 'em poor and stupid, eh C?
3. Carpetbagger: Commentary and analysis citing Rahm Emmanuel. Need I say more. It was a petty hitpiece for the sheep.
Who said your Saudi friend Bin Laden was in "Pakistan"???
I mean, it's not like Georgie-Boy actually put in an EFFORT to actively LOOK FOR HIM, now is it? Come to think of it, he DID say that he "just don't think about him much, anymore."
Canuck...can you not see nuance or context?
Allies are never perfect. We are not perrfect Allies to other countries. (BTW- Intel suggests that UBL has been in Pakistan and that AQ still has a strong influence in places in Pakistan. What do you suppose is the best way to deal with Mussharef?)
Bug- Saddam was never an "ally", like he was to the French. We chose to support Iraq in their war with Iran, knowing full well we were choosing the lesser of two evils. You know this.
Well, when you and your Posse mudsling and hurl vicious diatribes against REAL friends and traditional allies (like, ohhhhh, lemme see...us?), whilst giving a repressive theocratic dictatorship a repeated pass......
Saddam was never an ally? What about Reza Pahlawi?
Any idea why the poeple (not necessarily the governments) in the Persian Gulf region especially don't like the USA and UK?
Whatever the solution to the problems in the Middle East may be, it has to begin with the USA and most of Europe sincerely apologizing to the people (again not the governments, at least not all of them) of the region for the pain and sorrow they brought down on them for about a century.
What to do about Mussharef? Maybe ask him to stick to their constitution? Ah, maybe the USA is in no good position to do that now.
And Intelligence, which? The guys who disregarded the warnings about the 9/11 attackers when the German Bundesnachrichtendienst told them that these guys are going to the USA?
Canuck: You really are a miracle. You have, by implication, suggested ALL intel be tossed because some of it is wrong/subject to change/outdated/etc...without offering an alternative. Easy to do while spending enormous volumes of time behind a computer. My intel originally told me that you were relatively intelligent. However, after heavier scrutiny, I will have to reconsider my premature observations. (I notice you only offer sarcasm and nothing more.)
Bug- Honestly, Pahlavi was the heir (still is, I suppose) to the Iranian throne. How does that undermine my claim that Iraq was never really an ally? (Ally, being an overstatement about our relationship to Iraq in the late 70's and 80's)
And, if Mussharef says "no" to our request of Constitutional fealty...then what? Do we simply abandon our relationship? You two need desparately to see that relationships are rarely perfect.
(Yuk- I just pictured the two of you in the video of guys acting out a kissing scene.)
Kim Jong il is the heir of Kim Il sung, why does the USA have a problem with him?
Read up a bit about the history of Iran and the USA, the interesting part starts in the middle of the 20th century. Pahlavi had been removed from his throne, but the USA helped to reinstall him.
The USA was providing weapons and Saddam was throwing them at Iran, that is no alliance?
Nuance, Bug.
My fault. Like all allies, some are better than others. Iraq, at the time, was the lesser of two evils...but, not an ally.
I know nuance is tough. That is why reading about Iran in the latter half of the 20th century, with regard to Pahlavi, shows the depth and complxity of international relationships, Bug.
Yes, I was asking about Kim Jong il. According to your interpretation of the relation between the USA and Reza Pahlavi you should have no problem with him.
Actually the historical situation between Iran and USA is not that complex, it is just very dirty and the dirt is on the US side. Simple and short: The USA helped to kill the fledgling democracy in Iran and reinstalled the tyrant. The motivation behind this was that the Iran wanted to have its decent share of the oil wealth instead of getting just crumbs off the table of the international oil multis. In short they disowned the oil companies which Pahlavi did fix as soon as he was back in control.
So everything was back to normal: The populace was kept poor and uneducated, the monarch reinstalled on his peacock throne and anyone who objected was dealt with by the royal secret service.
Now do you have any glimpse of a remote idea why the Iranians may dislike the USA just a tiny little bit?
But, like, we've been hearing that for five fuckin' YEARS now. What's the solution? Occupy them forever? At some point, this friggin' insanity has to stop....SOMEHOW.
As to why it takes roughly eight weeks to put a young Marine through Basic Infantry, and why it takes going on five years to train an Iraqi army...I dunno.
Maybe the One-Who-Has-Never-Worn-A-Uniform can tell us.
Bug- You made a very salient point.
Canuck- Your yellow is showing. As I read your irrational comments, it goes something like this: "I know it has to end sometime because there must be a stopping point we can predict and control. So, to heck with reason, I am stopping this war now! Who's with me?!"
The sensical thing would have been to never do the invasion.
But now the only option is to stay in place, make sure the troops are not behaving like the retards that made it into some videos here, but like sensible persons like our ranger.
Pulling out the private security thugs and the "contractors" who just fill their pockets instead of getting real work done is an essential step. And bringing in massive help for rebuilding the infrastructure.
"Most of the world?" Did you get that from one of your reliable polls.
Actually, I don't doubt a lot of truth in that. But, again, being popular is not important to people who do what they think is right. Only to people like you who desparately need the approval and adulation of others.
I think I am voting for Monica Lewinski's boyfriend's wife.
Ya...and those numbers are a product of left-wing, terror-symp propaganda sources...because as we all know, the only real "truth" comes from the White House spokesperson.
Good call, Canuck.
They weren't there before the invasion in their current numbers...but some of them trained there. Further, they are there because they cannot have a democracy take root...particularly one that is secular in nature.
I seem to remember that you hated burgeoning theocracies.
"I think I am voting for Monica Lewinski's boyfriend's wife" - streamlined IQ if the worst that george W did was to get a blow job from a willing women (besides thats a problem between Bubba and his wife) you wouldnt have to be defend the monumental FUCKUPS that GWB has committed. Another thing more $ was spent on that witch hunt than the deliberate lies that GWB has committed. that is totally screwed up people are being murdered for oil you cretin admit it - if gift wrap shit its still always SHIT!!
You're right, C.
I suppose since George Soros told you they didn't train there(aid and comfort to an injured Zarqawi) and that Saddam didn't tolerate religious extremism (except when he paid the families of suicide bombers, but other than that, he did not suffer the religious zealots.) then that is all you need.
MrTeenyWeinie--how was school today? I hope your day was good and that the teachers didn't assign too much homework. What did mommy pack for lunch?
Canuck...you really ought to follow this story. OReilly's claim may be true...Edward's claim may be true. Why attach this to me...other than to pull your pants up believing that I think OReilly would be correct. (No one has lied with the alacrity of John Edwards nor with greater self interest. Well, maybe Michael Moore.)
BTW-the argument OReilly makes is NOT a slam of veterans, but is a slam on Edwards and his numbers. Please think. Attack OReilly's facts, like mine, but to say he was attacking veterans is a joke.
Okay, Stream. One more for you, and I'll let this one stand as my nuclear bomb, re: your insipid belief (amongst other things) about the "success" of Georgie-Boys so-called "surge":
Suppose you didn't read that article either.
The man writing it is very smart. He structures his aruments as simple either/or propositions in situations that have multifarious possibilities. (Even his summary is simplistic.)
However, I do agree with many of his facts...just not the conclusions.
This article was a dream come true for you since you have no capabilities of nuance, middle ground or anything that is not AGIN' THE WAR!...and, this guy framed it just like that.
I remember that one video where the teacher drew four options (the global warming one) and "logically" concluded that we should assume global warming is manmade and catastrophic. You loved its logic becaue it was just so simple.
See, keep it simple, limit choices and you are golden.
OH LOOKIEE STREAM! Here are TODAYS headlines out of Iraq. This is just for TODAY. Meaning....ONE DAY. This is what its like EVERYDAY.
Now....what was that about a "surge"?
Thursday: 1 US Soldier, 20 Iraqis Killed; 20 Iraqis Wounded
Updated at 5:30 p.m. EST, Jan. 31, 2008
For the third day in a row, Baghdad saw a number of small bombings. One explosion killed an American soldier. At least 20 Iraqis were killed or found dead and 20 more were wounded in attacks across the country. Meanwhile, the head of a parliamentary committee warns of the dire consequences facing Iraqi war widows. Also, military authorities reported that military suicides are up by as much as 20 percent, while Bush administration officials released stricter rules to govern security contractors in Iraq.
In Baghdad, three policemen and three civilians were killed during a roadside bombing in Zayouna. A pair of roadside bombs targeting a convoy on Palestine Street wounded three bodyguards who work for the electricity minister. A roadside bomb killed three people and wounded six more in Kadhimiya. Four people were wounded during a roadside bombing in Ghadeer. In Karrada, a roadside bomb wounded two civilians. Also, two dumped bodies were found.
Rockets landing on the British base in Basra injured three British soldiers. British officials denied that a helicopter was destroyed during attacks.
A suspected al-Qaeda leader was killed during a raid on his home in Khalis.
A severed head was found in Suleiman Pek.
A car bomb was detonated near a hospital in Mosul, but no casualties were reported. Two dumped bodies were recovered. A second car bombing left two wounded. Also, nine suspects were detained, and five university students were kidnapped.
Near Mosul in Hamdaniya, three unidentified bodies bearing gunshot wounds were found.
Six people were kidnapped at a fake checkpoint in Khaneqeen.
Two civilians were wounded during clashes in Baquba. Also, two women, who are cousins to the governor of Diyala, were abducted from a fake checkpoint between Abbara and Baquba.
Near Baiji, gunmen killed a father and son at a restaurant.
Although no casualties were reported, officials in Fallujah imposed a curfew after a roadside bomb was detonated near a U.S. patrol.
Dude, you seriously need to get a life and possibly some help. You are obsessed with seeing your name on the internet, and keep saying the same thing over an over. The war stinks and we all know it. This continuing dialogue is not helping or changing anything (wish it would). I feel sorry for you
Awwwww....how thweeeet! (and I think him mispelling my handle was a nice touch....or wait..was it on purpose? Oh well). And who gives a rats ass if changes anything? Pokin' and jabbin' a crackpot realist is entertaining. But to "change anyone or anything"?? Please. Or better yet.....how 'bout ya keep your pie-hole shut, and not bother reading any of it?
Cali, actually I sort of like the idea of the war...you know, risking/laying down your life for your neighbor/brother, or the off-colored man you don't know. A cool concept when you think about it. America was built on it..unlike the rest of the world. Liberalism used to be all about that. Progressivism will have none of it. Go figure.
I resent the shit out the idea that I went to gradaute school becuse I couldn't find work so I am just killing time. I am earning a PhD in Engineering becuse I LOVE RESEARCH, much like many of my colleagues we understand that a graduate degree is necessary for todays technical world. Fuck that teacher, how can an educator spurn education.
The problem is that we have made education a political issue and have allowed the dems and reps as well as special interest groups to pick at it rather than see education as a duty that we have to the next generation.
Hey, Plaigairizing-girl, Jesus belongs to us on the other side of the street. True, He loves you, but try using his sister, Sheezus H Christ, in the future. Makes you out out to be a little hypocritcal, doesn't it? And don't go quoting my terms as your own...I've caught you twice, (Terror-Symp, really, have you no shame?) Next time, I'll send 50 or 60 troops to invade Toronto and rape all the women (worth raping) and close all the sex toy shops, thus leaving you dickless...so to speak.
I believe gotcha is Canuck...after having a few critical voices that don't think in lock step with you, C, why not invent another person who can praise you?
Maybe his alias is Chummin and he just assumes everybody uses that method.
Quite a coincidence that Chumm did show up again just now when Streamy managed to get into a couple new threads where he is cornered with his harebrained opinions. They did also vanish at the same time, originally I thought they made it to their dixie toilet in time for the launch.
CANUCK!
Did you read the WHOLE story you just cited.
Goodness you are dense.
A. The article cites our successes in Afghan and its current development.
B. Supports the idea that Iran is now funding the Taliban, who it was at war with in the early 90's
C. If it is as you say, then your stated position of ONLY going to Afghanistan is upended.
BTW-when are you and Bug gonna throw down about your differing positions on what to do in Iraq. Seems Bug and I share a similar strategy, not philosophy, about what to do now in Iraq. (Your opinion is in the deep deep minority. Not that that means anything.)
STREAKLINE you little turd what is it just because more than one person disagrees with your verbal diarrhea it has to be a conspiracy canuck dose not need an alias i just happen to agree with him a hell of a lot more than you cause i cant stand the stench coming from your beak!!!!!!
Here ya go, Stream, ol' pal......Part II of your daily Iraq update:
Friday: 85 Iraqis Killed, 175 Wounded
Updated at 2:55 p.m. EST, Feb. 1, 2008
Bombers in Baghdad ratcheted up the violence on this prayer day by attacking multiple pet markets. Overall at least 85 Iraqis were killed and 175 more were wounded across Iraq. No Coalition troops were reported killed.
In Baghdad, apparently coordinated attacks on two pet markets left scores dead and authorities wondering if al-Qaeda has changed it tactics. Both attacks were perpetrated by female suicide bombers. The larger bombing occurred at the al-Ghazl pet market, where at least 46 people were killed and over 100 were injured. The market is a favorite with both customers, who pack it every Friday, and with bombers, who have attacked al-Ghazl several times.
The second bombing occurred 20 minutes later in Baghdad al-Jadida (New Baghdad). As many as 27 people were killed there and another 67 were injured there. Questions have arisen as to whether the women mentally challenged, and mobile phones, suggesting the women’s vests were remotely detonated, were discovered.
Three unidentified bodies were found in Baghdad.
At a Kut bus terminal, gunmen killed two policemen and wounded four civilians.
A sniper in Samarra killed an Iraq soldier. Clashes between gunmen and police also took place. Three gunmen were killed and a fourth one was captured.
A 12-year-old boy was killed in Mosul. Also, seven suspects were arrested during security operations, and two gunmen were caught planting a roadside bomb.
Details are sketchy, but a roadside bomb targeting a U.S. patrol in Hilla left a unknown number of casualties.
Five suspects were arrested in Kirkuk, and their explosives were seized. Another cache of weapons were seized.
A curfew in Fallujah was lifted. Also two gunmen were arrested as they were trying to plant a roadside bomb.
Actually it is, your ladyship, but that whole screed shows what i first called you months ago is true, "Terror-Symp". It also proves you love to see innocent people die just to be able to think yourself right in some way. Sort of sad. We didn't kill those people, the people we're shooting at did...and you want us to stop. In what, the name of humanity? As I asked several weeks ago, when did a Canadian ever risk his life for his fellow man? Ring, ring, woof woof.
Welcome back, chummin.
C-It is as I have said...if we leave now, thousands upon thousands will be slaughtered to establish the theocracy that you claim to hate (but, are obviously not motivated to prevent). I notice the defenseless are the ones you say we should leave to fend off the types who will strap bombs to retarded women and send them into a shopping area...obviously to kill our soldiers. Interesting tactic they are using; scare the locals into submission so they won't help the US forces; so they will cower and subject themselves to the men who would kill them. And, you are suggesting we do exactly that.
Well, if Saddam said he didn't have them he must've been telling the truth.
Please read the whole Pelley interview...SH explainss his duplicity and it makes more sense than you citing this as support for your proveable false arguments.
Know what, Stream? I'm gonna go one better here, for ya, and do something I've NEVER done before: I'm gonna give you a link to a news source, and I'm going to QUESTION IT! Know why? Because something twigged me in it, and seemed not right:
This is not the first time that the media has claimed that suicide bombers are mentally disabled with little freakin' evidence. That, to me, is horseshit. Suicide bombing is horrifying enough, but it adds another shade of demonization to the image of the backwards 7th century Muslims, to insinuate that they are callously using the mentally disabled to do their dirty work. Notice how in the article, NONE of the claims of these women having "Down Syndrome" could be independently verified; oh no. We'll have to take MALIKI'S word for it (as well as his underlings).
Looks like the media STILL don't know how to do their fucking jobs, huh Stream?
Which thought is more disturbing: Ruthless people willingly sacrificing other peoples lifes, or someone in his own mind sacrificing himself to suicide bomb other people?
Just not enough to make you do anything about it...like help them, fight the bad guys or come to the aid in any way of the people being killed by suicide bombers.
The problem is that when you apply brute force you will cause what is neatly called collateral damage.
When the collateral damage happens to mean you lose part of your family how much will you object to anyone who proposes to help inflict some damage on those who caused the collateral damage?
Canuck-You keep asking the same question...OVER and OVER. When answered, you just throw it back onto a new thread.
Your question about the bad guys show your limitless ignorance or, just your limits. Who would you call an enemy or how would you identify them, if in the course of the struggle, they convert to your side? This is an enormous point, C and Bug...please pay close attention.
The battle has never been against a people per se or a country. (I recognize that you do not understand this, so you keep asking questions that identify groups of people as if they can be categorized as enemy or friend based solely on their religiosity. Islamo-fascism is not a nationalistic philosophy.) You would like it to be so it can be a simple "We vs They" based on the uniform they wear.
Do you believe some sort of democracy/republic determined by its people is better than despotism and dictatorship? On what grounds? If you do, then why wouldn't you want others to have it? See, if we did not believe that the Iraqi people would prefer something better than Saddam and that it was good AND (here's our immediate national interest) that SH was furthering anti-American terrorism in the ME AND that this activity not only jeopardized our lives but our way of life, then we would have left this despot alone and you and I would still be arguing over Michael Moore.
Must have some strategic benefits or it wouldn't be used. You just don't want to hear about them and if you do hear about them, you dismiss them as lies, etc. Whatever ups or downs in strategies occur, the overall gameplan of the current surge seems to be going in the right direction. No one claims absolute percfection. Anticipating ALL consequences is impossible. (We call this nuance, Canuck, and apparently is seen by the PhD in this piece.)
By the way, C--you just cited another article that undermines some of your points.
In an attempt to quell bad feelings between Sunnis and Shi’ites, the Iraq parliament passed a law allowing former Ba’ath Party members to return to the posts they held during the Saddam regime; however, there is a possibility that the law could be overturned during an automatic review process. 10 Iraqis killed and nine more were wounded in recent attacks. Also, one American soldier died of non-combat-related causes yesterday in Ninewah.
Officials in Diwaniya released 309 of the 566 detainees captured during the recent Operation Lion's Leap due to a lack of evidence involving them in any crimes; however, 75 are expected to be given death sentences. It is believed that many people held long term in jails across Iraq are innocent, as they have not yet received trials.
In Baghdad, a senior police commando official was killed in Mansour when a bomb planted in his car exploded; two bodyguards were also wounded. In a separate incident nearby, security contractors shot and wounded a man.
In Baquba, gunmen attacked an Awakening Council meeting and killed four members; a police officer was also killed. A bomb blast wounded three people, including a Diyala provincial council member; a curfew was set in place after the incident.
Two people were injured during a car bombing in Mosul’s al-Maliya neighborhood.
A IED wounded a policemen in Fallujah.
A policeman was killed during a drive-by shooting in Kut.
U.S. forces killed three suspects and detained 36 in northern and central Iraq.
Tragic.
Probably best if we just picked up and left because killing the citizenry would stop immediately.
That is why they kill innocent people, Canuck...because we are there. It is so clear now.
We battle for hearts and minds, they battle for body count...and you support them.
This is a hilarious Stephen Colbert creation...but the sad part, Stream, is that YOU and your ne-con ilk, truly DO believe this shit about Georgie-Boyu.
I know you do.
Because you've said so (as well as your Posse, who---I hope--will be giving me some more quotes to use against you, and back up my point).
Monday: 33 Iraqis Killed, 22 Wounded
Turkish warplanes resumed bombing Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) targets in northern Iraq. The number of casualties, if any, is unknown. Elsewhere, at least 33 Iraqis were killed and 22 more were wounded in various attacks. No Coalition deaths were reported. Also, influential Mahdi Army leaders are pressuring Moqtada al-Sadr not to extend a ceasefire believed to have seriously reduced violence across Iraq.
In Baghdad, a foreign ministry official was killed during a drive-by in Mansour. A roadside bomb killed three soldiers and wounded two more in Adhamiya; two members of a neighborhood patrol were wounded during an ensuing clash. In Hurriya, two people were wounded by an explosive device planted underneath their car. A roadside bomb wounded four policemen in Maaqal. Also, Iraqi forces killed four suspects and wounded nine more during security operation that netted 76 suspects.
Southwest of Baghdad, a roadside bomb wounded two policemen.
A minibus driver and a girl were killed during an attack on a minibus near Baquba; the girl’s brother was wounded. Fifteen al-Qaeda suspects were killed and ten more were arrested in villages surrounding Baquba.
A Turkmen Front leader was killed in a drive-by shooting in Kirkuk.
U.S. and Iraqi forces killed seven suspects, wounded one, and arrested 28 during security operations in the Salman Pak area.
Wait...as a socialist, you should want a budget like this. It makes me sick, too. GWB spends like a drunken democrat.
I have yet to wrap my head around why GWB is so unpopular with Dems.
(Actually, I know why.)
A. He spends worse than they do...because he has a similar philosophy about the use of the Fed Gubment. Dems/lefties/libs are mad that he is behind the spending and not them.
B. There are only two places of difference, and one is a lie: (1)The War and his prosecution, thereof. (This one is the lie. Had 9/11 happened on a Dem's watch, their nascient fascistic tendencies would have really come to light.) Again, just mad that their philosophies about the use of force were rendered impotent for about 2 years--just long enough to push a few lies and destroy his presidency. (2) Tax Cuts--speaks for itself. Time and time again, tax cuts work AND yield enormous amounts of money for the Fed Gubment. This really is the crux of the neocons philosophy about the Fed: A productive people can keep more of their money AND bring in more money to the FedGubment. They (neocons) argue that they are better at using the peoples money than libs/lefties. I disagree.
Outside of the the war (and its ancillaries) and taxes, I have very little in common with GWB and what he does.
It only gets worse in the current crop of Pres's.
So, Canuck, trying to keep putting me in the Republican box and/or the neocon box continues to show your inability to critically think and assess.
Canuck-
I am ripping GWB a new one here, predicated on historical fact and stereotype: Dems have historically been the party of BIG federal spending programs. Blowing the taxpayers money on all sorts of things. The Republicans have, at least in argumentation, been the opposition to that.
Until now.
Thus, the correct analogy. "Drunken Democrat"...or, Teddy Kennedy.
You struggle so, so hard.
How does one man's horrible spending destroy the whole stereotype?!
I found the Canadians I have met to be thoughtful, courteous and polite. Just because you aren't doesn't destroy that stereotype.
I know now that the only thing you have is malice and hatred for "everything" GWB...not diasagreement, not particulars...but, unvarnished hatred. That is why you cannot criticize his actions...they all are either stupid, evil, Christain-zealot inspired, dishonest...even though many of the things he has done, particularly in social spending, should make you love him.
That is pure insecurity, Canuck. You must have any enemy to oppose to best define you.
All petty insults aside (and I admit, when it comes to hutling them at YOU and your Posse, I'm admittedly addicted to it), I'm going lay this one out for you, for a specific reason:
Given your constant lip-service about supporting/caring for the troops (well, what passes for YOUR definiton of "supporting" or "caring" for them), I'm very curious as to two things here:
A. Were you even aware of this?
B. Do you even "care"?
C. How do you "feel" about this?
D. If you've answered "yes" to A or B, then I guess my next question is: What have you done or said about it?
E. If you consider this as "concerning", then what do YOU think should be done, to address this abysmal, horrendous situation?
This is an awful statistics.
(I hope you are not using it as support for not continuing in Iraq.)
A. Not aware of it in those numbers as they are just now complete.
B. Of course. DO YOU?
C. Sickened. You?
D. I give to an organization who deals with despair/depression in the military. There is not much I could do to affect the overall numbers but making sure I let all servicemen know that I believe in what they are doing and thanking them is the biggest step. Undermining their moral by telling them they do not belong there and are doing greater harm can only diminish their ideas of their own value.
E. Find the causes of each attempt and make sure the soldiers know they are valuable. Suicide spikes during wartime, in general, and this makes sense.
I am suspect of a raw reading of the numbers and the impression they can give. There is A LOT missing in the 2100 figure. (What is included? What is interpreted? Are the causes addressed and categorized?)
That's because Rove is being asked on as an ANALYST, or did you miss that part? Goodness.
OReilly...host and commentator...not, newsman.
Kronkite...newsman in name only...but, still, newsman.
Bigot...could this kid run for office? Not with beliefs like his, right? I mean, he agrees with you on the war, but making a Christian argument in doing so. Ergo, that should disqualify him from debates with you and/or propagating his opinion.
You don't believe anything he says except for the anti-iraq war stuff.
You are a joke.
Next up: I will use some of Jimmy Carter's policy arguments to support my positions.
Stream...could you please write a letter to Mr. DICK Cheney, and ask him to ask his Company to stop bothering/assaulting this woman? And maybe even get back to the bascis of having an "open trial", instead of "secretive arbitrations"?
Gosh darn it, oh for the good ol' days of a judeg, jury, defence, etc....
According to you, nothing should be done. Saddam had rape rooms, for crying out loud. But, it's none of our business. You are the humanitarian, Canuck.
A. Still just an allegation.
B. The judge ordered the procedure due to the "terms of her original contract."
Please read your own stories before showing your radiant inability to think.
Well...ACCORDING TO THE JUDGE, the contract takes precedence. Not according to Halliburton or her or me.
We call him an interested party in the case.
Hard to blame anyone here, C.
Wednesday: 1 US Soldier, 46 Iraqis Killed; 46 Iraqis Wounded
Updated at 9:40 p.m. EST, Feb. 6, 2008
At least 46 Iraqis were killed or found dead and 46 more were wounded during numerous but small attacks throughout the country. The DOD reported that one U.S. soldier died of non-combat-related causes. Elsewhere, a U.S. army report noted that American troops are hit by anti-armor attacks every three days. Also, a UN refugee agency reports that Iraqis are again fleeing to Syria.
Tapes found in Khan Bani Saad in December purportedly show children play-acting as mujahedeen or holy warriors. Military authorities believe that the tapes were used for training young people.
A roadside bomb in Diwaniya blasted a minibus carrying detainees. Four people were killed and nine others were wounded, including seven policemen. Women and children were also among the casualties.
In Baghdad, four bodies were found dumped. Three people were wounded during a roadside bombing in al-Andalus Square. Another three people were wounded when mortars fell in Zayouna-Dubat. Two policemen were killed after confronting a man wearing a suicide vest. No casualties were reported after a roadside bomb targeting an Iraqi patrol was detonated in Hurriya. Rumors about a U.S. raid on a mosque were denied.
Seven headless bodies were discovered near Muqdadiyah. Also, four mortar rounds injured four people.
Three Headless bodies were found near Baquba. Baquba and Muqdadiyah are both in Diyala Province, which remains one of the deadliest areas in Iraq.
A man and three women were injured during a bomb blast near their vehicle in Khalis.
A roadside bomb blast near Kirkuk in Heliwa killed a 7-year-old girl and wounded six members of her family.
In Najaf, the body of a 16-year-old girl bearing stab wounds was discovered. Another body, belonging to a young man, who had been beaten to death, was also found.
Two policemen were killed and three others were wounded during a drive-by shooting in Mosul. Gunmen killed a man. Two people were injured by mortar fire. Bombs planted under high-voltage wires were defused. Roadside bombs wounded two policemen and three civilians in separate incidents. Also, three suspects were detained during security operations.
Two Iraqi soldiers were killed during an attack on a Samarra checkpoint. A civilian was injured during subsequent gunfire following the attack. Also, gunmen killed a member of the Association of Muslim Scholars yesterday.
A body bearing gunshot wounds to the head was discovered in Hilla.
An old landmine killed an 11-year-old on the family farm in Nasariya.
A woman was killed and two men were injured when a roadside bomb blasted their minibus in Tuz Khormato.
The Iraqi army killed five suspects and arrested 125 others across the country.
In Diyala, 65 detainees after authorities failed to demonstrate any guilt.
U.S. forces detained 10 in Sayafiya.
Three weapons traffickers were captured in Ramadi.
In al-Gheda village near Kirkuk, 46 suspects were detained.
Seven al-Qaeda suspects and 15 Ansar Ahmad al-Yamani supporters were arrested in Karbala.
Seven suspects were killed in Kifri.
In Buhriz, six men were injured during a roadside bombing.
Gee, Stream....didn't Georgie-Boy and all of his neocon buddies say that the "surge" is "working"???
This headline today: "5 PEOPLE DEAD, INCLUDING SWAT OFFICER AND GUNMAN, AS NIGHTLONG STANDOFF
ENDS IN LOS ANGELES"
Canuck...it's time to pull the cops out. This is none of the business of the rest of America. You can't change people. Having cops is not a "humane" thing. It's not worth it. Think about it...how much we could do with the LAPD budget money if there simply wasn't an LAPD.
Dear Mz Streamline school was great thank you for asking mommy packed me a wonderful ham and cheese sandwich and yes i was given heaps of homework i have to write a page on rightwing nut jobs i was wondering if you could give me some tutoring on the subject? BTW your the best Drama (queen) teacher i have ever had. I like you Mz Streamline I really do. (children can be quite innocent)
Further, Gunman kills in Missouri city councel.
See, Canuck, other governing bodies, including well-established ones, have a difficult time maintaining and agreeing on things...not just the one in Iraq.
I just listened to part of a speech, and I am paraphrasing, for all you folks who believe the USA to be an active, empirialist interloper:
The USA is the only entity in the history of the world who has fought wars and sent its sons and daughters to die for an ideal...WITHOUT EVER TAKING THE LAND IT CONQUERED.
Do the Native Americans share this view? Or the Hawaiians? Or the Phillipinos? Or are you talking about those sons and daughters who died for an "ideal" without ever taking the land they conquered, BUT NOT FOR LACK OF TRYING?
Really, Stream.
You must once and for all CLAIFY your intent here, re: various U.S. Administrations' Foreign Policy.
Or, at the very least, try to be a bit less.....fervent.
Stream, there is quite a difference between being proud of your country and being a stupid ignorant bastard. Whoever you have been listening to did not have his facts straight.
The USA did not always take the land and actually fought a few times to defend ideals. But the same can be said about many other countries.
Few other countries have killed that many people in attempts (some successful, at least for some time) to control regions or resources, you are second only to Nazi Germany and maybe the Soviet Union (Putin is carrying on the good work...).
BTW: "Taking the land" is a method that went out of fashion in mid last century, it turned out to be more efficient to do things like install a leader who is in favour of you, or have a large military base in a strategic location.
It does not take long to draw out stupid.
Canuck...which one(s) was/were for lack of trying? Careful here.
Please read, without having your heads up your butts, what i wrote and upon what I was commenting: the imperialist charge that is leveled by the monolithical thinkers here.
The speaker, nor myself, said ALL wars.
Bug, I noticed you didn't mention an example. AND, you said something that rivals canuck in sheer silliness, and you said it without a wisp of irony: That the US is now 2nd, presumably in body count, in an effort to control a region.
I believe it goes something like this:
Russia/USSR
China
Germany
Great Britain
Why did taking land go out of fashion, B? Again, careful how you answer it.
Stalin, Hitler and Mao (of the 20th Century) were definitely not in on this fashionable trend...nor was Pol Pot...who'd I leave out?
This list does NOT include instances where various U.S. Administrations have covertly overthrown DEMOCRATICALLY-elected governments, without actually having an army on the ground.
I wrote "mid last century", after WWII the incidents of countries attacking outher countries to actually capture them have become less frequent. Mainly the USA and the Soviet Union did rather install military bases and the friendly dictator or other kind of tyrant.
And you definitely need to do some reading on history. You don't even know what was military action, civil war, or famine.
Ever cared to take a look how many people the USA killed in Vietnam? And for what reason?
Good job, C and B...when your arguments are exploded, change the arguments.
You two make my day all rainbows and lollipops.
Vietnam?! Wait, we wanted their land, right. That's why we went over there.
War of 1812? You sure about that? Historians aren't. seem to recall maritime tensions being at the center of it.
Goodness...you are full of made-up stuff lately.
Mexico...maybe, but again, contextual reading of history will (well, probably not) educate you.
BUG: THIS IS WHAT YOU WROTE TO WHICH I COMMENTED:
"Few other countries have killed that many people in attempts (some successful, at least for some time) to control regions or resources, you are second only to Nazi Germany and maybe the Soviet Union (Putin is carrying on the good work...)."
Seems like you are the one who can't tell the difference.
Honestly, can you and Canuck stick to an argument?!
Useless. Totally useless. Streamy is completely incapable of following any argument and can't read more than a few words without losing the conext totally.
How come it's ALWAYS the same argument about "context-context-CONTEX!!" with you neocons?? I mean, it's ALWAYS the fuckin' same! Instead of just saying, "Yeah, that's correct...period.", all of you always use the same pathetic, lame-ass "context" argument! WITHOUT FAIL! (shrugs) Okay, fine:
1. If the War of 1812 was a "maritime issue"....then how come Toronto was invaded by U.S. troops, who went on a rape/pillage/burning rampage? Same for Niagra Falls....Queenston Heights.....Fort Henry in Kingston....and on and on. Plus, President James Madison assured Americans at that time, that U.S. forces would be greeted as "liberators" when they invaded (WHOA! Does THAT sound familiar?? LOL!). And the only "historians" who arent' "sure" about ANYTHING re: this war, are the ones who belong to conservative think tanks (usually affilaited with the Republican Party).
2. Vietnam.....well, if you didn't want the land, then how come Westmoreland said "We're gonna turn the Mekong Delta into another Tennessee Valley"? Plus, Johnson sure must have wanted something as well, because he sent an awful lot of kids there to die for something.
3. Mexico.....you're too much of a blind zealot to even argue that one.
Bottom line: my arguments still stand, and encompass the whole concept of "regime changes" as well.
And for all of your so-called "education", you've sure shown me one thing:
In spite of it, you're still not smart enough to admit when you're wrong.
It's obvious, Stream, that you just won't be happy with a few examples; so, I'll give you a whole CENTURY of various invasions/ occupations/landings/coups/various engagements by the U.S. military/government:
Thursday: 3 US Soldiers, 29 Iraqis Killed; 42 Iraqis Wounded
Updated at 11:40 p.m. Feb. 7, 2008
Today's battle in Sadr City may hint at the direction anti-U.S. cleric Moqtada al-Sadr will take when his unilateral ceasefire comes to an end in a few weeks. Although there were few casualties in that clash, the ceasefire is of great importance. Overall, at least 29 Iraqis were killed and another 42 were injured during small incidents mostly in central Iraq. Also, three new U.S. soldier deaths were reported.
A roadside bomb killed an American soldier in Baghdad yesterday. Also, the DOD released the names of two U.S. soldiers who were killed in an incident already reported as having killed a third American troopmember.
In Sadr City, clashes between suspected Mahdi Army militiamen and security forces left as many as three civilians injured, including women and children. One person was killed and sixteen suspects were detained. More importantly though, Moqtada al-Sadr's reaction may signal that he is willing to extend a six-month ceasefire. The ceasefire is one of, if not the main, reason that attacks are down across the country. At the very least, he is insisting that it be observed until he says otherwise.
In Baghdad, five dumped bodies were discovered. Gunmen killed three government employees and wounded three more during a drive-by shooting. In Mansour, a roadside bomb wounded three policemen as they were attempting to defuse it. A car bomb was found in Hurriyah, where it was safely detonated. Gunmen killed the driver of a car in al-Qahira; the car then crashed and four passengers were slightly injured. Also, two large weapons caches were found in Ghazaliya.
Three Awakening Council members were killed and seven more were wounded when a minibus exploded in Khannasah village, near Madaen. Also, a roadside bomb wounded two policemen.
In Muradiyah, suspected as-Qaeda killed three brothers and wounded five others, after clearing the women and children from the family home. The brothers are believed to be Awakening Council members. In a separate incident, a roadside bomb killed one child and injured four children.
A roadside bomb killed the chief of police in Siniya.
Eight communications towers were set ablaze in Mosul. No casualties were reported. The towers belong to several mobile phone companies. Two police officers were injured during a IED attack this morning. Another three policemen were injured during an IED exposion in Masarif.
A U.S. patrol in Kanaan fired upon a car, killing one passenger and injuring two others.
In al-Dhiba%u2019i village, near Tikrit, gunmen killed four men. One was the brother of a city council member, and another was an engineer at Tikrit University.
Two hostages were freed in Basra, and the kidnappers were detained.
Four children were injured by a bomb as they were shepherding in al-Shaiki.
Near Khalis, U.S. forces killed five suspects. An al-Qaeda suspect was killed in Mosul and six others were detained. Fifteeen suspects were detained in Muqdadiyah. In Tuz Khormato, three more were arrested. In Karbala, another pair of suspects were detained. Also, Iraqi and Polish forces arrested three suspects in Diwaniyah.
What ya think, Stream? STILL wanna compare the last 8 days (or even just today) in Iraq, to North American crime rates?
Or do you want to finally admit that Georgie-Boys so-called "surge", is a complete and utter cluster-fuck of a failure?
And you say Iraq is not a war. I suppose USA is under occupation.
Canuck...lots of awful things happen in the course of a war. I suggest you drop this asinine line of "reasoning" when arguing for failure in Iraq.
The crimes at your mall are not arguments that policing the mall should be abandoned.
Why do I get the funny feeling, that if you tell an Iraqi family to not worry, sweat it out, because golly-gee, the situation is the same as in the U.S.A. as it is for them THERE.........
they'd shoot you just for being a fuckin' lunatic?
out of class as well mrteeny shared his lunch with me he told me you were privately tutoring him on his school paper "Right Wing Nut Jobs" i thought i asked first... anyhow he said you would give him an A if he didnt say anything about those grunting noises you made with the funny face Whats all that about? PS i hope you like them apples i gave you
Canuck...sorry, thought I was copying the FBI link, not the Wiki link.
Go look the stuff up.
Completely "blows up" your rationale.
Notice, C, I am not making a case to them, but to you. I said your reasoning and the lack thereof was faulty. You are the only one making a case for more bloodshed.
By the way....here's another one: Day #11 in Iraq:
Sunday: 86 Iraqis Killed, 84 Wounded
Updated at 5:05 p.m. EST, Feb. 10, 2008
As U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates made a surprise visit to Iraq to meet with political leaders and military commanders, at least 86 Iraqis were killed and 84 more were wounded in new attacks. No Coalition deaths were reported, but a U.S. soldier was found guilty in of murdering an Iraqi.
A suicide car bomber near Balad blasted a Yathrib area checkpoint manned by Iraqi police and Awakening Council members. At least 33 were killed and 35 more were injured.
West of Mosul in the Tal Abta area, six tribal fighters and ten al-Qaeda suspects were killed during clashes that followed a armed attack on a pair of villages. Two women and four children were also killed during the initial attack. Two women were injured during crossfire.
In Baghdad, five dumped bodies were discovered in various neighborhoods. Gunmen fired upon two Defense Ministry officials in Yarmouk, but no casualties were reported. In Nosoor Square, gunmen fired upon a bus, killing one person and injuring two more. Also, U.S. forces conducted a raid on a psychiatric hospital in connection with a pair of significant bombings last week.
Mortars striking a police station killed three people and wounded 19 others in Balad Ruz.
Near Arbil in al-Hadj, an Iraqi soldier killed a civilian and wounded three others after a squabble at the civilian's fuel station. The soldiers involved were later arrested.
Three Awakening Council members were killed and two others were wounded during a bombing on a checkpoint in Amiriyat al-Fallujah.
Three brothers were found dead in Tikrit. A relative said that an Iraqi army force killed them in the presence of family members, but security forces claim the brothers were staging an attack.
On a highway between Tikrit and Baghdad, two civilians were gunned down.
The body of a woman was found shot to death in Arbil.
Three Awakening Council members were wounded during a car bombing between Hawija and Abbasi.
A grave containing five bodies was discovered in Bab al-Sham.
Three people were killed and seven injured during an suicide attack at a checkpoint in Albo Efan.
Four people were injured during a suicide bombing in downtown Mosul.
In al-Sahaji, four Iraqi soldiers were killed and seven others were wounded during a suicide fuel tanker bombing.
No casualties were reported after the British base in Basra received a missile attack.
A car bomb was defused in Ramadi.
The Iraqi Army arrested 75 people across Iraq.
Combined U.S.-Iraqi forces arrested two suspects near Hilla.
A senior al-Qaeda suspect was arrested in Kut.
Whattaya think? Has it even come close to "L.A." in the past week? Or no?
Huckabee says that college , he "didn't major in math....he majored in miracles".
I can personally fucking GUARANTEE you, 100%, that if he was running for elected office up here and uttered that supremely fuckin' stupid statement.....he would have been laughed out of the spotlight long, long ago (and maybe even locked up for a mental assessment).
Good to know that enabling the worst administration ever, and causing the destruction of millions of lives as well as the U.S.'s standing globally doesn%u2019t prevent them from being as mean-spirited and small as they%u2019ve ever been.
How these people sleep at night, I%u2019ll never know.
When it comes to examining how the Bush Administration comes to make the nutty decisions that it does, nothing EVER surprises me anymore, including this book (which I think I'm gonna buy):
"The Bush administration's world view is based on several misconceptions. For one, the administration thought of freedom as a gift from God, without understanding the practical requirements of developing democracies."
STREAM!
Does THAT sound familiar? Haven't I been telling your for seven months now, how fucking clueless/useless religious zealots are, when they're in decision-making positions??
From todays editorial in the Toronto Sun newspaper:
"It's alarming that in the world's most powerful democracy, presidential politics for the past 20 straight years has been a Hatfield-McCoy feud between just two American families -- the Bushes and Clintons.
Score to date -- 12-8 for the Bushes -- four years of George H.W. Bush and eight years of his son, George W., sandwiched by eight years of Bill Clinton in between, with his wife now shooting for the big prize.
If Hillary Clinton succeeds, that will mean four more years of Clintons, eight if she wins a second term.
That would make the most important job on Earth the exclusive preserve of two American families -- the Republican Bushes and Democratic Clintons -- for 28 consecutive years, 12 under Bush I and II, 16 under the Clintons.
The irony is that if you asked Americans (or Canadians) which American family is most identified with presidential politics, the majority would likely say the Kennedys.
But with one brother, John, assassinated after he won office, another, Bobby, assassinated as he tried to win it and the third, Ted, a powerful senator denied a date with destiny because of his personal demons, the Kennedy clan, while perhaps the most tragic in presidential politics, hasn't been the most successful.
Given so many years of Bush/Clinton rule already, perhaps it's no accident the two presidential candidates generating the most excitement to date -- presumptive Republican nominee John McCain and Clinton's Democratic challenger, Barack Obama, both promise Americans a new era of bipartisanship.
Whatever Hillary's other skills -- and they're formidable -- the idea she would co-operate as president with the "vast (Republican) right-wing conspiracy" she still blames for trying to destroy her husband during the Monica Lewinsky affair, seems unlikely.
Then again, promising bipartisanship is one thing, delivering it is another.
President George W. Bush, remember, started out seven years ago by describing himself as a "uniter, not a divider". And look how that turned out. "
(Never thought of it that way......interesting.....)
I heard a European guy say once that Mexico and South America didn't ever have Indigenous people and that they all came over from Spain around 200 years ago. I was so shocked i coughed up my hot pocket and farted at the same time.
As a World History teacher, do you want to know WHY students don't know about Ghandi? It is b/c our curriculum, set by the county and the state of Florida, has us stop at WW2! Yes, WW2! That's where the exam stops...I'm not kidding. There is not enough time to instruct everything that has happened in the world in one year, along with all the other school events and state mandated testing that has to happen.
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